Thread: Hot rod build....

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Okay, you purists are going to have trouble with this one...sorry for any offense I cause, but let me begin by saying I am a Chevrolet lover and I love AMERICAN muscle cars....I am 19 yrs old and new to this forum and I am planning to swap a chevy small block 355-383 into my 1995 Nissan 240sx (a little japanese car known for drifting)...

I just wanted to consult such experts as yall to help me out, what is a good combo to go with to make a nice 400hp to the wheels, but mainly big torque. I am stuck on the 383 for the torque and lope. Not going to need high rpm, but will definitely be driven hard at drift events yet still will be a daily driver.
I've thought about the DART shp block ($1500) with a forged bottom end, simply because I want the strength of forged internals....but is cast crank, powdered metal connecting rods, and hypereutectic pistions suitable for such a motor?

Please give me some feedback. What do yall recommend for 400-450 hp/ 400-450 ft/lbs torque? THank you in advance, especially to TECHInspector, lol.

Doubt anyone will be offended...........much. Looks like others have had the same basic idea......http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/cto/1301142795.html

No offense here!

Putting a smallblock Chevy in anything has been a "staple" of rodding, beginning in 1955, and only losing favor in recent years. It took the place of the Ford flathead as the engine of choice for rodders, due to it's power, high reving ability, compact size and light weight. From there, it was embraced by racers and the aftermarket, that always made the best and latest parts for the Chevy first! Putting it in your car only made sense.

Over the years, other engine designs have improved, and now they are finally making a big move into the rodder's cookbook.

...and BTW, rodder's have been building foreign car bodies for decades too.

Now, if you were putting a Nissan engine in a Chevy....................

Welcome to the forum.


Don

If I remember correctly, you're using a manual transmission. I'll try to put together a Gen I motor like I might build for drifting and keeping the cost as low as possible. This will be an externally balanced 383 that should live a long and happy life in a drifting/street environment with the components listed below.

BLOCK: '96-'99 Chevy truck, one-piece rear seal, OEM roller cam, 4-bolt main block (L31 5700 Vortec motor). The 4-bolts will be found in the 3/4 ton and heavier trucks. One of the casting numbers is 10243880. There may be other casting numbers in this engine series as well. All you want from the motor is the block with main caps, roller tappets, dogbones and spider. If you come across a long block or short block and can buy it reasonably (-$300), buy it and sell the stuff you won't be using on ebay or craigslist. A long block would have the L31 Vortec heads on it and they alone can fetch $200. Cut block decks to 9.010" block deck height. The stack of parts to be used will measure 9.008", so 9.010" will leave the piston crown down in the bore by 0.002" at top dead center and with the 0.039" head gasket we'll use, will result in a squish of 0.041".

OIL PAN/PUMP: 6 or 7-quart Road Race pan and windage tray. Call all these guys and tell 'em you're doing an L31 engine swap into a 240 with a 6000 rpm rev limit and ask what they recommend. Although I haven't used products from all these manufacturers, I've used Milodon pumps and pump drive shafts and can recommend them as being top drawer in quality.
http://www.hrpworld.com/index.cfm?tp...ction=category
http://www.milodon.com/oil-pans/road-race-oil-pans.asp
I don't see a Milodon pan for the L31 one-piece seal block, so call them.
http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/flats/1624/
http://www.moroso.com/catalog/catego...?catcode=11955
Write down or record everything these manufacturers have to say. Their tips and advice are GOLDEN.

CRANKSHAFT: Scat 3.750" stroke cast STEEL.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SCA-935050L/

RODS: Scat 4340 I-beam with capscrews. Pressed pin. These rods will clear the cam lobes with NO grinding.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SCA-25700P/

PISTONS: Keith Black hypereutectic #KB-197. 12cc D-cup.
http://kb-silvolite.com/performance....etails&P_id=94
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/UEM-KB197-030/

HEAD GASKETS: Fel-Pro #1010, 0.039" compressed.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FPP-1010/

CAMSHAFT: CompCams hydraulic roller, 1.5 rockers.
http://www.compcams.com/Cam_Specs/Ca...?csid=188&sb=0

HEADS: Edelbrock aluminum #60759. 70cc chambers. Edelbrock shows these heads as having a 185cc intake runner. Summit shows them as having a 170cc runner. I would prefer to believe Edelbrock. Anyway, I used the flow figures from Edelbrock's site.....
0.100 73 61
0.200 140 108
0.300 200 144
0.400 238 163
0.500 244 175
0.600 244 183

INTAKE MANIFOLD: Dual-plane, high-rise such as the Edelbrock Performer RPM or Weiand Stealth.

CARBURETOR: Barry Grant Mighty Sportsman Road Race carb. Annular discharge. 750 CFM. Part #5402020RR. Begin your tuning with #76 primary jets and #82 secondary jets.

HEADERS: Long-tube, equal-length, tuned 1 3/4" primary headers. Chop away whatever you have to in the car to make room for these full-length headers and the Road Race oil pan. No excuses. Shut-up. Remember to leave room at the firewall for the distributor. Plan ahead.

HARMONIC DAMPER: Part #CHE400 from Damper Doctor. Rebuilt.
http://www.damperdoctor.com/Merchant...egory_Code=CHE

FLYWHEEL/CLUTCH: Talk to the tech guys at McLeod about your flywheel and clutch needs for this car.....(externally-balanced flywheel)
http://www.mcleodind.com/contact.html

9.68:1 static compression ratio, dynamic compression ratio 8.4:1

RPM HP TQ
2000 149 392
2500 189 397
3000 243 426
3500 306 459
4000 364 478
4500 415 485
5000 452 474
5500 470 447
6000 457 400

There is a lot of compromise in this build. I wanted to use aluminum heads to lighten the front end of the car, but wanted rather smallish heads to make torque instead of high-rpm horsepower. Used 5.7 rods instead of 6.0 to keep the wrist pin out of the oil ring land. RPM's are limited to 6200 by the hydraulic roller lifters, but that's ok. We'll shift at 6000.

Stirfry, nail down the source and exact cost of all these parts, then call the tech staff at SummitRacing and Jegs. Give them the list and ask if they can come up with a kit price for everything for you. If they think they are going to get all the business, they will be willing to cut some of the prices for you.

COOLING SYSTEM: Almost forgot about cooling. If I were doing this, I would use a radiator or the size of radiator that was originally used by Chevrolet to cool the 350. If I had to cut the core support out of the 240 and weld or bolt in a Chevy core support...Oh, well. I'd use a 7-blade, 18" diameter OEM steel Chevy fan with thermostatically-controlled fan clutch and the proper shroud for the radiator and fan used. Forget about all that weak-suck electric fan and electric water pump crap. Put a cooling system in place that will WORK. Use an aluminum-body, belt-driven water pump of known good quality. (Edelbrock, etc.).

I think tour going to have a nose heavy car that won't slide the rear, sure it will spin the tires wuthout a problem, but have to much nose weight to slide the rear around where you want it, it will not street drive every good. I believe you can build your motor to do the same without all the work, just to quit part way through, or be disapointed over what you've put together.
My brother has a web site that deals with sliders all the time and see's it all the time. You can pull high hp out of the motor you have in the car, and not do all the work, my brother pulls 750hp out of his Mitsubishi 3000 VR-4 v-6cyl, 1000 hp out of his Toyota Mr2 4IL cyl, and 1400hp out of his Toyota Suprasport 6IL cyl. and are all street driven cars

Pat

WOW...I love yall already, this forum is the best on the internet for sure.... THanks for all the support and input. The stock KA24det weighs a monsterous 598 lbs with the transmission in the car, so maybe it's not AS LIGHT a one would think, so the small block won't be that much of an increase....percentage wise... Let me clarify as well...I will be drifting 3 days out of the year and if it doesn't drift, I won't be sad, I'll just buy another 240sx and keep the stock motor for drifting. This build here is designed to be a badass, street car with a choppy idle and wicked torque for light-to-light ecstacy. BTW, i just turned 20yrs old, i forgot i'm not 19 anymore, haha.

Anyway...long story is.... help me build a HOT ROD, not necessarily a drift/race car. Thanks everyone once again!

Originally Posted by HemiTCoupe

I think tour going to have a nose heavy car that won't slide the rear, sure it will spin the tires wuthout a problem, but have to much nose weight to slide the rear around where you want it, it will not street drive every good. I believe you can build your motor to do the same without all the work, just to quit part way through, or be disapointed over what you've put together.
My brother has a web site that deals with sliders all the time and see's it all the time. You can pull high hp out of the motor you have in the car, and not do all the work, my brother pulls 750hp out of his Mitsubishi 3000 VR-4 v-6cyl, 1000 hp out of his Toyota Mr2 4IL cyl, and 1400hp out of his Toyota Suprasport 6IL cyl. and are all street driven cars

Pat

now thats what i am talking about..sheesshhh never knew those imports could be THAT hot. DAYYUMMM...learn something new everyday and i know who im calling about stats if i ever get a 3000 vr4, a mr2, and a suprasport.

Originally Posted by techinspector1

If I remember correctly, you're using a manual transmission. I'll try to put together a Gen I motor like I might build for drifting and keeping the cost as low as possible. This will be an externally balanced 383 that should live a long and happy life in a drifting/street environment with the components listed below.

BLOCK: '96-'99 Chevy truck, one-piece rear seal, OEM roller cam, 4-bolt main block (L31 5700 Vortec motor). The 4-bolts will be found in the 3/4 ton and heavier trucks. One of the casting numbers is 10243880. There may be other casting numbers in this engine series as well. All you want from the motor is the block with main caps, roller tappets, dogbones and spider. If you come across a long block or short block and can buy it reasonably (-$300), buy it and sell the stuff you won't be using on ebay or craigslist. A long block would have the L31 Vortec heads on it and they alone can fetch $200. Cut block decks to 9.010" block deck height. The stack of parts to be used will measure 9.008", so 9.010" will leave the piston crown down in the bore by 0.002" at top dead center and with the 0.039" head gasket we'll use, will result in a squish of 0.041".

OIL PAN/PUMP: 6 or 7-quart Road Race pan and windage tray. Call all these guys and tell 'em you're doing an L31 engine swap into a 240 with a 6000 rpm rev limit and ask what they recommend. Although I haven't used products from all these manufacturers, I've used Milodon pumps and pump drive shafts and can recommend them as being top drawer in quality.
http://www.hrpworld.com/index.cfm?tp...ction=category
http://www.milodon.com/oil-pans/road-race-oil-pans.asp
I don't see a Milodon pan for the L31 one-piece seal block, so call them.
http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/flats/1624/
http://www.moroso.com/catalog/catego...?catcode=11955
Write down or record everything these manufacturers have to say. Their tips and advice are GOLDEN.

CRANKSHAFT: Scat 3.750" stroke cast STEEL.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SCA-935050L/

RODS: Scat 4340 I-beam with capscrews. Pressed pin. These rods will clear the cam lobes with NO grinding.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SCA-25700P/

PISTONS: Keith Black hypereutectic #KB-197. 12cc D-cup.
http://kb-silvolite.com/performance....etails&P_id=94
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/UEM-KB197-030/

HEAD GASKETS: Fel-Pro #1010, 0.039" compressed.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FPP-1010/

CAMSHAFT: CompCams hydraulic roller, 1.5 rockers.
http://www.compcams.com/Cam_Specs/Ca...?csid=188&sb=0

HEADS: Edelbrock aluminum #60759. 70cc chambers. Edelbrock shows these heads as having a 185cc intake runner. Summit shows them as having a 170cc runner. I would prefer to believe Edelbrock. Anyway, I used the flow figures from Edelbrock's site.....
0.100 73 61
0.200 140 108
0.300 200 144
0.400 238 163
0.500 244 175
0.600 244 183

INTAKE MANIFOLD: Dual-plane, high-rise such as the Edelbrock Performer RPM or Weiand Stealth.

CARBURETOR: Barry Grant Mighty Sportsman Road Race carb. Annular discharge. 750 CFM. Part #5402020RR. Begin your tuning with #76 primary jets and #82 secondary jets.

HEADERS: Long-tube, equal-length, tuned 1 3/4" primary headers. Chop away whatever you have to in the car to make room for these full-length headers and the Road Race oil pan. No excuses. Shut-up. Remember to leave room at the firewall for the distributor. Plan ahead.

HARMONIC DAMPER: Part #CHE400 from Damper Doctor. Rebuilt.
http://www.damperdoctor.com/Merchant...egory_Code=CHE

FLYWHEEL/CLUTCH: Talk to the tech guys at McLeod about your flywheel and clutch needs for this car.....(externally-balanced flywheel)
http://www.mcleodind.com/contact.html

9.68:1 static compression ratio, dynamic compression ratio 8.4:1

RPM HP TQ
2000 149 392
2500 189 397
3000 243 426
3500 306 459
4000 364 478
4500 415 485
5000 452 474
5500 470 447
6000 457 400

There is a lot of compromise in this build. I wanted to use aluminum heads to lighten the front end of the car, but wanted rather smallish heads to make torque instead of high-rpm horsepower. Used 5.7 rods instead of 6.0 to keep the wrist pin out of the oil ring land. RPM's are limited to 6200 by the hydraulic roller lifters, but that's ok. We'll shift at 6000.

Stirfry, nail down the source and exact cost of all these parts, then call the tech staff at SummitRacing and Jegs. Give them the list and ask if they can come up with a kit price for everything for you. If they think they are going to get all the business, they will be willing to cut some of the prices for you.

COOLING SYSTEM: Almost forgot about cooling. If I were doing this, I would use a radiator or the size of radiator that was originally used by Chevrolet to cool the 350. If I had to cut the core support out of the 240 and weld or bolt in a Chevy core support...Oh, well. I'd use a 7-blade, 18" diameter OEM steel Chevy fan with thermostatically-controlled fan clutch and the proper shroud for the radiator and fan used. Forget about all that weak-suck electric fan and electric water pump crap. Put a cooling system in place that will WORK. Use an aluminum-body, belt-driven water pump of known good quality. (Edelbrock, etc.).

Excellent post !!!!

indeed, excellent post haha

B.T.W. TECHINSPECTOR1, this is what I was planning on for the oil pan, etc...

http://www.mckinneymotorsports.com/prod_350+Chevy+240sx

Okay, let's say that I wanted to run a forged crank....then what techinspector....this is really more of a "dirt track" application, a bit harder on the powertrain than most would expect. Money is not THAT big of an issue, about a 6,000 dollar budget, so I plan on using comp cams magnum roller rockers, arp bolts/stud throughout, nothing cheap, and I was really planning on dart or AFR heads, how would this combo look with your expertise taken into account. Thanks sir...

Originally Posted by HemiTCoupe

I think tour going to have a nose heavy car that won't slide the rear, sure it will spin the tires wuthout a problem, but have to much nose weight to slide the rear around where you want it, it will not street drive every good. I believe you can build your motor to do the same without all the work, just to quit part way through, or be disapointed over what you've put together.
My brother has a web site that deals with sliders all the time and see's it all the time. You can pull high hp out of the motor you have in the car, and not do all the work, my brother pulls 750hp out of his Mitsubishi 3000 VR-4 v-6cyl, 1000 hp out of his Toyota Mr2 4IL cyl, and 1400hp out of his Toyota Suprasport 6IL cyl. and are all street driven cars

Pat

Small Block with T56 Weighs 33lbs more than stock KA24de with auto tranny...and makes as much power as i want. So not an issue, and those "street driven" cars would never last even 50,000 miles running that amount of 'PEAK' power.

What ignition do yall recommend...part numbers please, thanks

HemiT is right about that Musclecars, they make lots more HP thean I thought they could a few years back. I had a Mexican style 302 boss in a 67 mustang some years ago now.
Anyway I ran against a Toyota Supra in a street race. I started out playing with him and soon found out he was not playing around. I ended up running him down at the end but it was all I could do to catch him. I made a mistake in under estimating him and almost lost. That mustang was turning high 10's and he almost spanked me.
I don't play with them Supras anymore. Kurt