Thread: 355 build help

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ive been looking and looking and i think i might stick with the chevy. i dont think i can get the power out of a windsor that i can with the same money in a chevy. ive looked into the oil pan issues and the guy who is helping me build the air ride system can fab up some motor / trans mounts. and chevy parts are absolutely everywhere. i would like to do a short block and build the top end myself. im thinking the afr 190 heads and one of the comp cams. not sure on intake/ carb combo yet. can anyone recommend a short block to start with ? or maybe a different way to go about it ? any advice is appreciated

Get a roller SBC block.

I would have to agree--we are doing a lot of roller cam sbc and blocks vary as to dipstick on drivers or passengers side of block and wheather there is a fuel pump mounting boss and whether it is drilled or not---carb engine need the fuel pump or addition of electric pump--
I also have several billet alum adapters so we can use 2 piece seal cranks and/or early pan

239 Y block? Didn't know there was one, i recall 272, 292 and the 312. I would not cut loose a good 'y' block, they have the best sound ever and the 'cool' factor outweighs any possible benefit of another sbc - regardless of horse power.
You want to get way cool, grab one of them latham superchargers with the sidedraft carters that pop up on ebay and add that to your motor with a pair of thunderbird valve covers and that is one of the holy grails of hot rodding.
But then, i am not normal so my advice isn't always spot-on.

im all for the y blocks. but the 239 only came in 54 and the internals are different than the 272 292 312s. there were veryyy little speed parts made for them. and its gonna need a rebuild soon. parts are a mother and they make no power. i like the y blocks. but i really want something i can just beat on and have some good power and not have to worry about too much. and i dont feel like dealing out tons of cash for something that makes 130hp

it took me almost a month just to find a 4 barrel manifold for the 239. and it had a teapot 4v bolt pattern so i needed an adapter, and had to switch the oil pump and distributor out to run the newer 390 holley. ive considered the larger 292s etc but there not cheap to make power with.

You're right about that, 'y' blocks are right salty to build and low on power. You aren't far from me and a guy was in here a couple days ago that has a complete FE 390 with C6 in his shop and wants it to go away, he said make an offer.

Originally Posted by greengrenade

it took me almost a month just to find a 4 barrel manifold for the 239. and it had a teapot 4v bolt pattern so i needed an adapter, and had to switch the oil pump and distributor out to run the newer 390 holley. ive considered the larger 292s etc but there not cheap to make power with.

i wanna do a 4 or 5 speed. plus im not doing the swap untill summerand im really tight on space right now so i dont think i can make an offer right now. thanks for the offer tho

so can anyone point me to a shop or company to get a block or short block from at a decent price. like i said id like to stay under 4k, and spend the majority of my money on heads, and a good cam, carb, intake combo.

With all this talk about the old "Y" blocks, I did some digging in my archives and found some pretty interesting stuff about the 239 - including the specifications that may be of interest to anyone still running one of these old guys. Enjoy

"The first Y-block was the 1954 239 cu in Ford engine; known for its deep skirting, which causes the engine to resemble a “Y”. It was rated at 130 hp and it replaced the 239 cu in Flathead which was rated at 106 hp. The Y-block was considered a major advancement over the Flathead. It is known for having oiling problems in the rocker shafts due to the fact the oil first went to the crankshaft bearing, then to the camshaft bearings, then to the rocker shafts. This problem plagued the entire Y-block family and could be remedied by running a copper line from the oil pump and then to the rocker shafts. (I did this on a 312 that I had and it really did cure the oiling problem to the rocker shafts!)

The oiling problem was caused by the passage from the center cam bearing to the cylinder head being offset by an inch and too small. The motor oils of the 1950’s were low in detergents, but high in coke; when combined with short trips and infrequent oil changes, this led to blockage of this passage. This left the lower end with ample oil while the rocker shaft assemblies literally burned up. The external oiler kit essentially provided oil to the rocker shafts from the oil pressure port on the outside of the engine.

A quick reference to the engine specifications for 1955-57 will show the Ford V-8s ahead of the Chevrolet counterparts in displacement, horsepower and torque. The real enemy of the Y-block was its displacement limit. The original architecture was very small and tight. Even with the benefit of today's technology (aftermarket rods and stroker cranks), the real limit of a Y-block is about 348 cubic inches, while the Chevrolet could be modified well past the factory limit of 400 cu in. The ever-increasing size and weight of the standard passenger car, the added parasitic losses for accessories (power steering, power brakes and air conditioning), cheap gasoline and the horsepower race all caused Ford to outgrow its first OHV V-8 engine. It is interesting to note that both Ford and Chevrolet went to optional "big block" engines for 1958, 352 cubic inches at Ford compared to 348 cubic inch at Chevrolet.

As mentioned above, the 239 Ford Y Block engine was first introduced by Ford in 1954 as a substitute for the 239 flathead engine. At the time the Ford Y Block 239 was thought of as a significant improvement over the 106 horsepower flathead, by almost 30 horsepower.

The original Y Block 239 included unique parts that weren’t compatible with Ford Y Block engines developed later on. These included a mechanical camshaft and 14 mm sparkplugs with a washer that would later be replaced in 1955 by a tapered seat 18 mm spark plug.

The Ford Y Block 239 engine was an innovative Ford production V8 that had a number of features not seen before on V8 engines. These features included full pressure oil filtration, valve guide oil diverters, shaft rocker arms, a single water pump, counterweighted fuel pump concentric, oil trough for timing chain oiling, and staggered oiling at the connecting rods.

In the following years from its debut, designers made some select improvements. In 1956, they added an oil singer at the back of the crankshaft. In 1957, they exchanged the old asbestos rope seals with neoprene rear seals. Then, in 1958 they replaced the cartridge oil filter system with a disposable oil filtering system while upgrading the ignition system and oil pump.

The Ford Y Block 239 Cubic Inch engine was included with Ford trucks from the years 1954 to 1964, Ford cars from 1954 to 1962, and the Ford Thunderbird during years 1955, 1956 and 1957. It was succeeded by the Ford-Edsel (FE) and the Ford Windsor engines."

GENERAL SPECIFICATIONS
• Model Designation: V8 - U4 (first serial number: U4-100001: additional letters between basic model letters and serials numbers refer to paint)
• Valve Location: In head
• Bore and Stroke: 3.50" x 3.10"
• Piston displacement, Cubic Inches: 239.4
• Compression ratio: 7.2
• Maximum Brake Horsepower: 130 @ 4200 RPM
• Maximum Torque Lbs.Ft. @ RPM: 214 @ 1800
• Normal Oil Pressure Pounds: 50
TUNE UP SPECIFICATIONS
• Spark Plug Make: Champion H10
• Spark Plug Gap, Inch: .035
• Firing Order: 15486372 (from front to rear: Right 1-2-3-4; left 5-6-7-8)
• Ignition Timing: Wide mark is TDC, each succeeding mark represents 2, 4, 6, 8 and 10 degrees before TDC. Set timing 3 degrees BTDC on cars with manual shift transmission and 6 degrees BTDC on Fordomatic equipped cars. Marks located on pulley.
• Engine Idle Speed, RPM: Manual shift trans. 475; automatic shift trans. 450
• Cylinder Head Torque Lbs.Ft.: 75
• Compression Pressure & Cranking Speed: 130 Min.
PISTON AND RING SPECIFICATIONS
• Fitting Pistons with Scale:
o Removed from Above
o Shim thickness to use: .002
o Pounds Pull on Scale: 5 to 10
• Rings: (for tapered bores for minimum clearance fit rings in tightest portion of ring travel)
• Ring Gap, Minimum: Compression: .010
• Ring Gap, Minimum: Oil: .010
• Clearance in Groove: Compression: .002-.0035
• Clearance in Groove: Oil: .0015-.003 Wristpin Diameter, Inch: .9120-.9123
• Wristpin Diameter, Inch: .9120-.9123
VALVE SPECIFICATIONS
• Operating Clearance:
o Intake: .019 Hot
o Exhaust: .019 Hot
• Clearance for Timing Intake:
o .019
• Valve Seat Angle, degrees: 45
• Valve Timing: (BTDC = before top dead center; ATDC = after top dead center)
o Intake opens: 8 degrees BTDC
o Exhaust Closes: 5 degrees ATDC
• Valve Spring Pressure Pounds at Inches Length:
o Spring: 54 @ 1.82 (only one spring used)
• Valve Stem Clearance:
o Intake: .004 Max.
o Exhaust: .005 Max.
ENGINE BEARING SPECIFICATIONS
• Connecting Rod Bearings:
o Journal Diameter, Inches: 2.1880-2.1888
o Bearing Clearance, Inch: .037 Max.
o Rod End Play, Inch: .012 Max.
o Rod Bolt Tension, Lbs.Ft.: 45-50
• Main Bearings:
o Journal Diameter, Inches: 2.4980-2.4988
o Bearing Clearance, Inch: .0042 Max.
o Main Bolt Tension, Lbs.Ft.: 95-105
CAPACITY DATA
• Cooling System:
o Without heater: 20 quarts
o With heater: 21 quarts Fuel Tank: 17 gallons (station wagons and couriers 19 gallons)
• Engine Oil:
o 5 quarts
• Transmission:
o without overdrive: 3 pints
o with overdrive: 4
• Automatic Transmission:
o 9-3/4 quarts
• Rear Axle:
o 3-1/2 pints;
o Station wagon: 3
STARTING MOTOR SPECIFICATIONS
• Unit Number: FAC-11001A&B
• Brush Spring Tension: 48-56 ounces
• No Load Test: 70 Amps, 6 Volts @ 3000 RPM
• Torque Test: 700 Amps, 3.5 Volts, 16 Lbs.Ft. Torque
LOADAMATIC DISTRIBUTOR SPECIFICATIONS
• Distributor part number: FAE-12127A
• Cam Angle, degrees: 28
• Breaker Gap, Inch: .014-.016
• Condenser Capacity: .21-.25 Mfds.
• Breaker Arm Spring Tension: 17-20 Oz.
• Distributor Vacuum Advance Data:
o Centrifugal Advance:
- Degrees advance at 500 RPM: 3-1/4 - 4-3/4, Inches vacuum; .72
- Degrees advance at 1000 RPM: 10 - 11, Inches vacuum: 2.2
- Degrees advance at 1500 RPM: 12-1/2 - 13-1/2, Inches vacuum: 3.46
- Degrees advance at 2000 RPM: 14 - 15-1/4, Inches vacuum: 4.4
GENERATOR SPECIFICATIONS
• Generator Number: FBC-10000A (generator rotates clockwise)
• Generator output: FBC-10000A 35 Amps @ 900 (engine speed)
• Brush Spring Tension: 30 oz.
REGULATOR SPECIFICATIONS
• Regulator Number: FAC-10505A
• Cutout Relay:
o Voltage to close points: 6.3
o Reverse Current to Open Points: 0-8 amps
o Voltage regulator setting: 7.4 volts
o Current regulator setting: 34 amps
ENGINE TIGHTENING SPECIFICATIONS (FT. LBS.)
• Spark Plugs: 25-30
• Cylinder Head Bolts: 65-75
• Intake Manifold: 23-28
• Exhaust Manifold: 23-28
• Rocker Arm Shaft Bracket: 12-15
• Rocker Arm Cover: 2 - 2-1/2
• Connecting Rod Cap Bolts: 45-50
• Main Bearing Cap Bolts: 95-105
• Flywheel to Crankshaft: 75-85
• Vibration Damper or Pulley: 85-95

To add to the list, here in Canada the Y-block also came in a 254ci version in the Mercury and Monarch. IIRC it had a longer stroke than the 239 and I think it was only available with a 4 barrel.

actually the manifold i got for my 239 was off of a 54 merc 256 y block. that was about the only 4 barrel manifold i could find. i think offenhauser and edelbrock made 1 but there few and far between. and i think offenhauser even made a 3 deuce manifold for the 239. i could be wrong though. other than that i have founde veryyy little speed parts related to the 239

ttt. any recommendations on where to go for a good short block ?

Send me a PM of what you might want--we build a lot of 383-396 strokers based on late roller blocks--of course we can also do stock strokers, but the stroker stuff is about the same price--we probably have 20 sbc in progress now and yours could be added to the run(not mass produced , but machined in serial with other sbc so set up times are more effienct)