Thread: Suggestions for building a 350 for a 23T, please

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Hi, this looks like a gr8 forum. This is my first post here. Thanks in advance for help with a couple of questions for you sbc guys. Apologies for the length.

THE CAR:
Nearing finish (hoping to make Good Guys Ft Worth in March or NSRA OKC in April) of a 108" wb, aprox 2000# fat (I widened it so I could actually sit in it instead of on it) 23 T. It is low budget but quality built using rectangular and round tube. Has non-power, adjustable proportion and residual valve 4 w/disc brakes and unisteer cross rack on split wishbone suicide front end. Will add a front sway bar to be figured out and rigged if I can do it without it being too ugly.

ENGINE & TRANSMISSION:
Helped the budget with a 70k mile 350sbc GM factory crate motor replacement and 20K mile rebult 700R from a $500 ratty donor 88 2wd Chev Suburban my buddy split for parts. The TBI would be ugly on an open engine car so it will go away. Don't know how to make it work anyway.

GEARS:
Rear tires are 33" tall on an overdrive car, so we changed 3.27 to 4.10 gears. Rear is a 28 spline 8.8 trac lock from a Mustang GT donor. Rear suspension is a long arm triangulated 4 bar with coilovers and a sprint car style torsion sway bar. Est rpm at 70 mph is 2050, if my math is correct; 41 mph at 5500 in the 700R stump puller first gear, 126 mph @ 5500in third (a good 1/4 mile trap speed potential) and save the o'drive for cruising. Will probably stay with the stock or near stock stall converter (switchable lock-up) because of desired cruise rpm.

USE:
Gonna highway short - med trips, city cruise and rod run it plus lump around making gawdawful noise, setting off burglar alarms, terrifying old ladys and the faint of heart with 1 3/4 into 3.5 collector open headers at slow speeds at car shows. It will see occasional trips to the drag strips - would be happy if it does the above and runs in the mid 11s without breaking parts. It has an NHRA 135mph/10.50 legal roll bar (side and rear bars but no connectors to a front hoop)and wheelie bars. Might even see slaloms (with appropriate tire/wheels). I have fantasies that it will be docile, be terrifyingly fast when the loud pedal is pushed hard, yet actually stop and go around corners!http://www.clubhotrod.com/forums/ima...ies/icon10.gif

QUESTIONS:
1. I am assuming the engine has good torque but not much HP? Are the heads worth keeping?

2. Any idea what the compression ratio is?

3. Is this a GEN 1 or II? Will GEN 1 intakes fit? I have GEN 1 Performer and Performer RPM intakes & a 750 Edelbrock carb. Prefer a Weiand (spl?) Stealth (have one with a 750dp on a 388 stroker/700R/3.89 geared 79 Corvette). Also have an MSD Pro bIllet (8365) and 1 3/4 primary into 3.5 collector headers and noisy gear drive for it. Stole the wife's debit and credit cards and cracked the piggy banks so I am ready to buy the rest.

4. I am thinking 350 HP@ flywheel @ 2200 lbs with driver, fuel etc, should just get there? 375 to 400 HP would be great, but probably costly and not needed?

5. So what is the the best, reasonable cost way to get this basic engine/trans/gear (have 14.5x32x15 slicks) to the mid 11's and still be an ez crusier (back on the Mickeys)?

6. I like the sound of Comp Cams Thumper or Mutha Humper and noisy gear drive. According to comp cams it is good on the street, and has good HP, torque and vacuum (latter not a concern). Without a lot more stall the "Big Bad Mutha Thumper" would be useless/ The Mutha Thumper is probably to
- The Anyone use it and like or dislike it?
- If it is not good for this project, what would be the best choice?

7. Last and a weird tangent, Ebay has listed polished twin T3/4 hybird with adjustable (5 to 35 psi) waste gate, intercooler, oil cooler and header kits in the $1200 to 2000 range (about my budget for improving the engine)
They look pretty complete except for carb hat. They would look incredible..http://www.clubhotrod.com/forums/images/smilies/eek.gif. and if this engine is a low compression.... well, I am just thinking here...http://www.clubhotrod.com/forums/ima...s/rolleyes.gif


Suggestions, experiences, answers on these (or anything else about the above, please! Yes, I am already receiving mental health counselling for AADD and the other stuff you are thinking...

Hey, no kidding, thanks again...!!!

A stock 350 will make a T go very well, My T has a 289 Ford and its fairly mildly built but 330bhp in 3/4 of a ton gets me 12.6 quarter mile times

Thanks! I am thinking, but don't know that this engine is pretty low horsepower, but good torque. If so, it would probably be lucky to do low 14s. Have seen a bunch of hot rods that were in reality pretty slow. Was told the (truck?) heads are very low rpm and good for boat anchors. Just don't know. One reason I bought this engine is that I had a TBI 350/700r in a 89 GMC conversion van many years ago that was surprisingly a pretty good runner and tow car. Raced Chevies (and 455 Buicks) so long ago and so much has changed that I no longer seem to know much about SBC.

You T sounds cool. Doesn't take a lot of hp to make them go. Sounds like your higher hp 289 is a perfect balance for lots of fun.

Since you know something about Fords, you might find my next project interesting. I have a fresh, mild 351W and an 8.8 IRS with traction control out of a 94 t-bird. They are going in a 91 300K mile Miata that has been in the family forever. Just like it too much to send it to the junk yard. It just got a new top and will get paint this weekend. Youngest is driving it to college this semester, plan to build next winter. Will need to buy a 5 speed, bell housing, clutch, etc. don't know which ford 5 speed is best. Can't afford a 6 speed. You probably know there are lots of kits for 5.0 in Miata are out there. The 8.8 IRS seems ideal, kits with narrowed half shaft axles to bolt it in are avail too, but they are really pricey. Probably will build my own adaption bracketery and have my half shafts narrowed locally. Not above back halfing it, but want to keep an IRS for handling. Surprisingly, with aluminum heads and an 8.8/5speed, they only pick up about 300# and the weight distribution is still the same. Never built anything with a Ford. Know a 351W has a taller deck was thinking it the same otherwise for size, installation in a Miata. Hope I am right.

Know anything about 351W vs 5.0?

Since you have a T... The Miata engine is very good looking and reminds me of an Offy. Was kind of thinking the entire Miata running gear would look really cool in a sprint car nosed Track T. Am thinking 1500 lbs. Wouldn't want anything to go to waste!

Lol, if I could concentrate on one project at a time, I might actually get one of them finished!

Thanks for your comments.

Hope we don't get shot for talking Fords on a SBC forum.

I just looked at the photos of your T. Very very cool. Especially like the Raders/wide whites, laid back windshield and the 32 grill shell. Bet your car is about 1800#? Nice job!

Whats 1800# ???

Originally Posted by Nsanu T

I just looked at the photos of your T. Very very cool. Especially like the Raders/wide whites, laid back windshield and the 32 grill shell. Bet your car is about 1800#? Nice job!

Weighs 1,800 pounds.

Guessing mine between 1900 and 2000.

that engine out of the box will only be about 200 hp, which is more than enough for a T.. But you could bolt on a set of Vortech heads, mild cam and with headders, you should be over the 300 hp mark

Thanks Matt,

About 200 hp with pretty good torque (needed for a suburban) is about what I am thinking for this.

Sounds like the heads are good for boat anchors?

Since I would like to be in mid 11s, I figure I need 350 hp or so. How I do it for 2 grand or less budget?

Gotcha , mine weighed in at 1650lbs

Originally Posted by Nsanu T

Weighs 1,800 pounds.

Guessing mine between 1900 and 2000.

Originally Posted by Nsanu T

Thanks Matt,

About 200 hp with pretty good torque (needed for a suburban) is about what I am thinking for this.

Sounds like the heads are good for boat anchors?

Since I would like to be in mid 11s, I figure I need 350 hp or so. How I do it for 2 grand or less budget?

'87-'95 Swirl port heads are junk for performance. they are great at what they were designed for, and that was low end torque. they are out of steam by 4k RPM, but do pull very hard up to that... I think 350 hp for $2k is reasonable.. if you can get ahold of a nice set of workable vortechs for $50-100 out of a junkyard ( '96-'00 5.7L truck ), you should be able to have them worked for much less than the cost of a decent aftermarket set. those along with a new cam matched to the compression ratio ( will bump to 9.4:1 IIRC ) and the RPM you want to run in, and a good intake, and it would probably be there

Way too easy to overpower a T.!!!!! With their light weight and short wheelbase it doesn't take much too make them a miserable handful on the street.... And that from a guy who ran a '27 with a blown BBF and a 5 speed...but that was many years ago when crazy counted for more then cruizin'!!!!

A 350 with a rebuild, a camshaft that rumbles, a decent carb and you are set to go. A 'bucket, as Dave S. said, can get to be a real handful in a BIG hurry with big horsepower. And yep, that's from personal experiences

This is 1600# with a well warmed over 351W



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