Thread: ZDDP questoins

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I am just about ready to fire up a new 350 crate engine. Now my questions about zinc additives and high zinc oils. This is a flat tappet cam engine. What kind of break in oil and after the break in period what kind of oil do you reccomend. Also where to get it. I work with a couple of guys who have built a number of engines and they say they just use Castol GTX and have never had a problem. I have been advised by GM and some others to go with the higher zinc stuff. Thanks to all who can help me.......Rich

I used a bottle of Lucas Engine Break-In Oil Additive for the initial start of my engine, but I've got a roller cam so it was really not so much of an issue, just insurance.
http://www.lucasoil.com/products/dis...tid=9&loc=show
I've seen reference to GM's EOS Oil Additive, but others say that ZDD Plus has more than twice the zinc of the GM additive.
http://www.zddplus.com/
Initial breakin is critical, but if I were running a flat tappet cam I would be looking for an additive to add at every oil change. There have been cases where a cam lobe has rounded off in the first 20 minutes or so - scary!!

I use Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil in my flathead. It has high levels of ZDDP already and I think it works great. Available anywhere...

There are still a couple of oils that contain the ZDDP additive pack. If it were me I would NOT even consider trying to break in any engine with a flat tappet cam without more protection than JUST the additive's available from some of the cam folks. After all it is called an "Additive" and from speaking to some folks who really know what they are talking about, Pat McCarthy being one of them. I dont belive the additive alone will get the job done.

There is a lot of talk about Rottella still having the ZDDP additive pack like in the past. This is not the case as Rottella has changed the amount of Zinc in that formula and that information came from Shell there self.

Right know the two oils that for sure contain the old and same amount formula are Brad Penn oils and Valvoline Racing Oil. There could be more I guess but I personally don't know of any...

RS

Joe Gibbs Racing Oil is another one like Brad Penn's that is a high zinc oil.

I use a bottle of comp cams ZDDP to every oil change. You can get it at summitt. Especially a new break in you should add for flat tappet cam. It is cheap insurance the way I look at it.

Any DINO oil that is 40 weight or higher has enough ZDDP. 10/40, 20/50 and 15/40 (diesel oil) are good choices. I use both Rotella T (diesel) 15/40 and Castrol GTX 20/50 in my flat tappet engines with no problems.

For break in, I used GM EOS (me being a Ford guy) for extra protection. The Lucas and Comp Cams stuff is probably just as good.

Personally, I wouldn't use racing oil unless it is specifically marked for use as a regular oil because of different additive packages.

Originally Posted by Hombre259

There is a lot of talk about Rottella still having the ZDDP additive pack like in the past. This is not the case as Rottella has changed the amount of Zinc in that formula and that information came from Shell there self.

RS

Rotella T, despite the reduction two years ago, has plenty of ZDDP, in fact, 1100 ppm and that came directly from Shell

well there is no zddp in most all oils made now .it will plug the cataytic converters. that is why most race oils have the zddp and will say not for pollution controlled vehicles you can added all the whizz bang stuff you want .but it can also sit in the bottom of the oil pan. may or not mix then you get in to a oil clash. may work and may not at the time needed . i use a oil made for the job brad penn or joe gibbs .hi detergente oils can block the zddp from bonding .a fast burn zddp is what you want for break in that will go in to the micro valleys of metal parts bond and turn it to glass like micro finsh this is what the fast burn zddp will do .it will not work if a hi detergent oil is used as this will block zddp from hooking in to the metal part and stripping the zinc if it makes it there .diesel oil may not save your butt as the load from the hi cr has a slower burn rate then most street engines and were you may need it the zzdp may not be working for you .so there is more to this then just saying a oil has zinc but to say a oil has zinc that will work for the job at hand . this is what lake speed from joe gibbs was telling us so i will take has word for it . why be cheap? or spend money on oil and a mix that makes you feel like your doing some thing good for your engine when it just may not do any thing ?oil is not home made soup you can mix at home ? when i build a engine i want the oil that works

I have done as much reading on this subject as I can find. I also have some personal experiance with the oils commonly available today. What this research found is a very high failure rate for Flat Tappet Cams. It has gotten so bad that when I had Pat build my last motor a SBC I used at Pats recommendation a roller cam. I also have built a couple of BBC Chevys and have learned by listening to guys that really know there way around BBC's that a roller is really the only way to go in that engine period.

I also talked to just about all of the Cam manufacturers. Without a doubt what all of them told me was that a stock motor or one close to stock can get by with a additive pack of as low as 850 PPM they would prefer 1,000 PPM of Zinc Phos. But if you are using an aftermarket cam that requires a higher pressure spring and a more aggresive cam profile that nothing less than 1200 to 1300 PPM has any chance of letting the cam live.

paul274854, If you are using Rotella and think it is giving you protection than thats fine with me. I don't think it is, and I am not trusting my investment to a oil that at best is borderline by the recommendation of the guys building the cams.

RS

pat mccarthy,Hombre259,rspears,buzz and evryone else who replied.......Thank you so much for your advice!! Can't wait to get this thing going. Just waiting on the trans (freshly reworked 200r4.) Hooking that up to a new crate engine (GM # 19210009) Putting that in a beautiful black 87 Cutlass Supreme. Thanks again to everyone.......Rich

Rotella is CJ-4 oil now too and has been for a couple years along with Del-vac and all the others. All of the CI-4 oil was bought up very quickly by the diesel truck guys in store cleanout lots when the standard was changed. Every one of us diesel guys constantly check out oil in the stores to see if we can find CI-4 so you won't see it in the common stores. I use Lucas in both the streetrod and the Cummins.

STOP BUYING UP OUR DIESEL OIL FOR YOUR HOT RODS. We need it for our trucks. There is no advantage to running 15-40 in a streetrod. 10-30 or 10-40 works just fine unless you are loose as a goose. Just add any ZDDP additive.

schaffers has moly in it, bonds the the metal good stuff. along with zinc and all the other good stuff holds up well in te circle track cars. but i know drag racers that use it to.