Thread: H/C/I/carb on 4 bolt 350

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In California don't forget that the parts have to meet the air board----you might even have to go out of state to buy stuff!
Its really sad that in the neighboring states that border Calif that you have to show an ID to but parts just in case you might be from Ca---------

Originally Posted by Mike P

Glenn, you really don’t get into the high octane rating (113 to 115) unless you’re talking about E85 and to really see much benefit from the E85 you need to start looking at CRs starting around 12:1. E10 premium still only ranges between 91- 94 octane depending on where you are.

Aluminum heads of better design, camshaft profiles and (probably most importantly) fuel injection and timing that are computer controlled allow the newer engines to run higher compression like we used to back in the “good old days”.

If MrGody lived at a higher altitude (say around 4500 ft) and the car was never going to leave that general area I might be tempted to go a ½ to ¾ point higher on the CR, but LA is about as close to sea level as you can get. On a carbureted engine with iron heads I tend to agree with Roger about a true 9:1 being about the maximum compression you’d want to run on pump gas.


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One of the things I appreciate about CHR is always learning new things! Thanks, Mike!

Great, I will be buying the heads new, so I will avoid milling andCR won't be an issue.
Anyone have any feedback on the Patriot 185s? They looked really good in a car craft article I read.
Also any feedback on the comp 12-211-2 cam?

Originally Posted by MrGbody

Great, I will be buying the heads new, so I will avoid milling andCR won't be an issue.
Anyone have any feedback on the Patriot 185s? They looked really good in a car craft article I read.
Also any feedback on the comp 12-211-2 cam?

last i knew patriot stop making heads thats been over a year my one warehouse i buy from stop selling them for over a year they are a over seas casting that was machined in the usa , this may or may not .make any difference in your purchase

did you miss my post about the CALIFORNIA concerns???????????seems strange no comments

Yeah thanks Jerry, I appreciate the concern. My sister lives in AZ, I get the parts that it can't get shipped out here, shipped to her, then she ships them to me. We've got a system.

thanks for the reply---most hot rodders around the country don't relize that those conditions exist--------you can have pot but not parts--------( I think even charcoal lighter fluid is illegal isn't it???That might have been in Colorado)

That is nuts. California and it's laws are penalizing the rest of the country. At work, we didn't get any new fleet trucks for 2 calendar years after the drop dead date of our fleet due to Ca changing their emissions laws a few years ago. All the new trucks went to Ca and the old ones were removed if over 1998, and transfered through out the country. Anything older than 98 was retired and crushed. Our trucks were 3-5 years over their projected life span. And the company wonders why maintenance costs are higher than projected? Sorry for the hi-jack.

California laws are ridiculous. You know what they say; all the fruits & nuts roll west... And join congress.

Originally Posted by MrGbody

Great, I will be buying the heads new, so I will avoid milling andCR won't be an issue.
Anyone have any feedback on the Patriot 185s? They looked really good in a car craft article I read.

Jegs still has them listed on their site - $735 w/free shipping

ProMaxx Performance 2151 Patriot Performance GM Vortec 185cc Cylinder Heads - Free Shipping on All Orders @ JEGS

They also have the GM Vortecs for $620 a pair w/free shipping..

Chevrolet Performance 12558060 Chevrolet Performance Small Block Chevy Cast Iron Vortec Cylinder Heads - Free Shipping on All Orders @ JEGS

Real close, but the Patriot have longer intake runner (185 versus 170) and larger 2.02/1.6 valves versus the GM heads at 1.94/1.5

Good price on either set especially with free shipping.

These are #s I found on the car craft article. Wish they had numbers for the AFRs. I would fork over the extra cash if i could find out if it's really worth a good gain.

Vortec Iron, Scoggin-Dickey Modified PN SD8060A2, $779.90
Peak HP 378 at 5,300
Peak TQ 408 at 4,300
Valve Sizes 1.94/1.50
Intake Port 170
Chamber 64
Valvesprings 1.250-inch single spring w/ damper

Patriot 185cc PN 2168, $815.00
Peak HP 420 at 5,900
Peak TQ 417 at 4,300
Valve Sizes 2.02/1.60
Intake Port 185cc
Chamber 64cc
Valvesprings 1.430-inch-diameter single

Also what gears & stall should I be considering?

Originally Posted by glennsexton

Jegs still has them listed on their site - $735 w/free shipping

ProMaxx Performance 2151 Patriot Performance GM Vortec 185cc Cylinder Heads - Free Shipping on All Orders @ JEGS

They also have the GM Vortecs for $620 a pair w/free shipping..

Chevrolet Performance 12558060 Chevrolet Performance Small Block Chevy Cast Iron Vortec Cylinder Heads - Free Shipping on All Orders @ JEGS

Real close, but the Patriot have longer intake runner (185 versus 170) and larger 2.02/1.6 valves versus the GM heads at 1.94/1.5

Good price on either set especially with free shipping.

well i see they are making heads again so i what i said was wrong .i knew they were down my warehouse still is no longer selling them ???? so who knows about them???the ower use to post on the yellow buliet . so maybe it.s a new owner ???? i would spend abit more money and look at the afr or the E tec head from eldebrock

Ok I will spend a little more and go with the AFRs. Now I've found a good deal on some 195s. They're sitting at my buddy's shop. He had a customer building a strip car and he ordered them, then decided to go bigger so never had them installed, and they've just been sitting in the box for a month or so; I can get them for $1200. Could I get away with those, and go a little bigger on the cam, rear gears & stall, meanwhile keeping my car streetable, or are the 180s the only way to go for me?
I'm willing to live with a lumpy idle. I DDd my 5.0 with 4.10s and an XE274HR for over a year and thought that was a great combo. I just don't want my car to die on me sitting in traffic with the AC & headlights on, and obviously want to retain some street manners, so no really extreme stall converter or anything.

for years i ran stuff with big CID engines and some CR . just about any thing will run on the street i have engines making 1200hp with tame cams with head that have big cc 355to420.you really do not need a big cam just because you have a port runner 10cc bigger i do not always build them that way big port = must have a big cam i would still work with the real power band as how your going to drive it and not worry much about the head if low lift numbers are good. i have a 470cc runner heads at low lift flow numbers as good a smaller heads and were the small heads stop the bigger heads are still putting big numbers down

Thanks for the feedback Pat, I'm not very well educated in this area though; are you telling me I could achieve better numbers with the 195s and the same cam despite the lower CR?