Thread: right combo?

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I've got a 350 bored 60 over. scat crank, flat top pistons, pink rods, world product I-052 heads, Elgin E1015p cam, 1.52 roller rockers, headers, street denominator intake , Holley 600 carb. with a th350 trans ,shift kit, 4200 stall, mini spool in rear with 4.10 gear.
changing cam to a summit cam with a
.487int. -.508 exh . changing lifters and springs and all. going with a Victor Jr intake and a 250 shot nitrous. what go might I have and ft. lb torque.?

Looks like a horrendous mis-match of parts to me.

First off, the heads are stock replacement heads that will flow about the same as any Chevy cast iron production head, just over 200 CFM at 0.400" valve lift, so they will not support the grind of camshaft or intake manifold or torque converter that you intend to use. Those little 170cc intake runners will be all done and gasping for air at the converter stall point, just as the motor is "gettin' up on the cam" and just as the intake manifold is beginning to flow some decent numbers. You didn't post the volume of the combustion chambers, it could be 58cc's or 67cc's or 76cc's, so I can't figure the static compression ratio for you to match up a cam grind. The carb is too small to make any serious hp, although you may save this combo with the planned nitrous. I don't know, I never used nitrous. I'm suspecting that the "roller rockers" you refer to are actually CompCams Magnums, possibly the worst rocker you could have chosen because of the sliding ball fulcrum. I've seen 'em generate so much friction that they turn the entire rocker body blue from the heat. If you're going to invest money in "roller rockers", then invest in a serious rocker that utilizes a roller bearing at the fulcrum, such as Scorpion.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/scc-scp1000/overview/

The Victor Jr will only make things worse, it was designed to make power from 3500 to 8000 with a strong set of heads and a minimum of 750 CFM.

I don't mean to be condescending to you at all, but it appears that you haven't a clue. First and foremost, the heads are junk for what you're trying to do with 'em. Sling 'em over the fence and invest in a set of Pro-Filer aluminum 195cc intake runner heads that'll flow 260+ out of the box and build from there. You're trying to build a serious RPM motor and the heads you have just simply will not work for that combo.
SBC 23 Degree Cylinder Heads
You can have a set of these heads, fully assembled and ready to bolt on, delivered to your door for under $1100.

The cam that's in it now....
Elgin Industries : Online Catalog

The cam that you're planning to use.....
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-1107/overview/

The World website....
http://www.pbm-erson.com/UserFiles/D...g-Download.pdf

Here's a tutorial that I wrote on another forum that will explain what cam timing to use with what static compression ratio.
http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/w..._compatibility

The other thing to consider is that current pump gas quality limits iron heads to about 9.5:1 static compression ratio. Cylinder pressures generated by higher static compression ratios can result in detonation. Aluminum heads will support 10.5:1 on current fuel quality.

And finally, you didn't share any details about the headers with us, but what I would use with a high-revving small block with N2O would be 1 3/4" x 30" equal-length primaries with minimum 3/8" flange thickness. Thinner flanges will curl up from the heat and spit out the gaskets.

You other fellows reading this would do well to begin with a proven combination of parts as published by one of the leading automotive magazines such as Car Craft, Hot Rod, Rod and Custom, Chevy Hi-Performance, Street Rodder or other popular magazine.

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Climber567,
Welcome to the forum! Tech doesn't sugar coat anything, but you can take what he tells you to the bank, or to the winner's circle. If you want to take it another step share some more details like chamber volume and headers, and figure out your best value path forward, knowing that it will work.

Welcome to CHR Climber!
We’re a friendly bunch here with a lot of hot rod and engine building knowledge – but we do tend to speak our minds! As such (and you did ask) I think you’ve got a recipe for real disappointment here.

Maybe we could start from the beginning. What vehicle are you working on and what are you trying to achieve with this build?

The reason I ask is that the parts you’re intending to use are a real mis-match and unless you plan on running in the stratosphere on your RPM this engine will be a real dog. The heads are a good aftermarket piece for a near-stock engine in the 8 or 9:1 compression ratio range running a slightly enhanced cam. The cam you have referenced (SUM-1107?) is way too much cam for anything that will ever see the street and the Victor Jr (while a great manifold for its intended use) is not designed to idle less than 1200RPM. The Holly 600 is a good carb, but not with this manifold, cam and head combination.

I doubt seriously if you have “pink” rods as they have not been made in years. Up until the late 1990s (I think it was 1996/97?) all stock Chevrolet rods were forged from 1038 steel. Powdered metal rods are forged from 4340 steel and came into play in mid to ‘90’s. The pink rod is a 1038 steel rod that was use in high performance and some truck applications. It was Magnafluxed and shot-peened and then got a pink stripe painted on it to distinguish it from standard rods. So there’s really nothing special about a pink rod and aftermarket or properly Magnafluxed, polished, and peened stock rods that have been balanced as a set are equal to any pink rod that may have been originally been striped by GM. Any true “pink rod” is nothing but a used rod. It would not stand up long to the beating nitrous brings and it would require refurbishing just like any other rod. It better to purchase a good set of aftermarket rods with ARP bolts already installed – they would be stronger and all of the work is already done.

And finally with a 4:10 spool and the 4200 stall speed– unless there’s been some serious work done on the TH350 when everything grabs hold and it shifts from low to second you will have lots of little bits and pieces trailing you in a bath of real hot transmission fluid.

So – if you’re still interested, let’s start all over again and tell us what you’re building and what your goals are for this car.

Best,
Glenn

lol ok I just bought this s10 about three months ago.it's a 94 . ok I'm not sure what's all going on here with motor. ide like a 6 second truck.

I've went to drag strip with it one time was running 8.40 in 1/8 . launched most runns around 2500 , last run I launched at 3800 and twisted the driverside axle in half 6 inches from spline. any advise on where I should start replacing parts to hold about 700 hp on spray

start at yhe lug nuts-----finish with the nut behind the steering wheel

u r right I have no clue , I got truck as payment for a tree job I did lol. yes I thought it was mismatched also but I'm no hot rod racer lol yet.

Hmmm I’m not sure exactly where this is going;

Your S10 probably weighs in between 3200 and 3500 pounds. A six second (I’m assuming 1/8 time) time is in the 9.5 seconds to high 10 second ¼ mile time. 3200 pound car would need about 535 horsepower at the wheels and a 3500 pound car will need real close to 600 horse.

When you’re talking these kind of times, all sponsored tracks will mandate adherence to IHRA rules and it can get real expensive real quick. You’ll need to get a copy of Safety Foundation Incorporated (SFI) requirements as everything from your harmonic balancer (SFI 18:1) to your driver restraint system (SFI 16:1) needs to comply.

To go that fast, you need a design that incorporates a lot of engineered parts, not least of which is your chassis and an S10 would be one of the last base platforms I’d even consider. Most people who run these speeds in sanctioned bodies have completely engineered chassis and spend a lot of money.

Your drive line – as described so far – is not capable of sustaining this performance.

Your engine – as described so far – is not capable of producing the necessary output. It’s a lot easier to get the horsepower you’re looking for in a big block or at a minimum, a stroker motor. I have been party to couple 383’s that run mid 10 seconds, but they’re real expensive – one of which started with a Dart block that was $2,000 – just for the block. These were 11:1 engines with aftermarket aluminum heads and mechanical roller cams. One used a Victor Junior manifold and a Demon carburetor. It was not street friendly at all but it did push a 1967 Nova with a modified B&M TH400, 4200 stall and 4.30 read end (3150 pounds w/fuel and driver) to a 10.66 ¼ mile.

If you’re thinking less than $10,000 for engine, $5K for chassis modifications and another $5-7K for drivetrain you be disappointed. Some may tell you they can go fast for less, but I’ve never found a rule compliant 10 second car that doesn’t cost a lot of money.

Just my 2 cents,
Glenn

Originally Posted by glennsexton

Your S10 probably weighs in between 3200 and 3500 pounds. A six second (I’m assuming 1/8 time) time is in the 9.5 seconds to high 10 second ¼ mile time. 3200 pound car would need about 535 horsepower at the wheels and a 3500 pound car will need real close to 600 horse.

There are 2 ways to talk about horsepower, at the flywheel, which is the normal way of talking about horsepower, and then there is horsepower at the wheels, which is a whole different story and the one that's used in online formulas for figuring E.T. and speed at the dragstrip. At the wheels takes into consideration all the losses through the torque converter, transmission, driveshaft, u-joints and differential, axles, wheels and tires. You can normally figure on a loss of about 20%, so for instance 600 hp at the flywheel would equal 480 hp at the rear wheels. If you need 600 hp at the wheels, then you need 750 hp at the flywheel and you have surpassed the strength of a production Chevy 350 block. You'd be driving over the crankshaft before you got to the end of the track due to pulling the lower end webbing out of the block.
http://dndracing.com/blog/blog/blogp...nk%20Motor.jpg

Originally Posted by glennsexton

When you’re talking these kind of times, all sponsored tracks will mandate adherence to IHRA rules and it can get real expensive real quick. You’ll need to get a copy of Safety Foundation Incorporated (SFI) requirements as everything from your harmonic balancer (SFI 18:1) to your driver restraint system (SFI 16:1) needs to comply.

What you need is an NHRA Rulebook, it has all the SFI requirements in the back of the book. And by the way, SFI stands for SEMA Foundation, Inc...... SEMA stands for Specialty Equipment Marketing Association. Summit has 'em for sale.....
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-nhrarb/overview/

A lighter car, such as a 2500 lb car, with 580 hp at the flywheel, will turn the 1/8 mile at 6.00 E.T. (visualize a VW bug, full of lightening holes and with a 383 mounted up front). You could build such a motor for about $5000-$6000. Then figure $650 for the torque converter, $1500 for the transmission and $2000 for the rear suspension, diff, gears, axles and locker. A good cage would be at least $1500. Here's where it gets expensive.....6.00 in the 1/8 mile equates to 9.60 in the 1/4 mile. Get your rulebook and look at all the equipment you will need to go 9.60.

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Originally Posted by techinspector1

What you need is an NHRA Rulebook, it has all the SFI requirements in the back of the book. And by the way, SFI stands for SEMA Foundation, Inc. SEMA stands for Specialty Equipment Marketing Association. Summit has 'em for sale.....
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-nhrarb/overview/
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I'm always learning! Thanks, Tech - you probably wrote a lot of this manual, eh?

Originally Posted by glennsexton

I'm always learning! Thanks, Tech - you probably wrote a lot of this manual, eh?

Yes Glenn, some of my verbage is still in the NHRA Rulebook. I don't ever talk about it, because it's too hard for the average guy to believe that a dumbass like me ever wrote something for NHRA.

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Not to get too side tracked - but I see Summit sells a 430 horsepower streetable 383 roller SBC ffrom Blue Print Engines for about $4,600 with a 30 month, 50,000 mile warranty. I've seen a few of the Blue Print engines and the car owners speak well of them. I don't think you could build one for that amount by the time you hunted down a good core and had all the machine work done plus sourcing all the parts, cast steel crank stroker crank, good heads, etc., not to mention the time required to properly assemble.

However, to find 600 horsepower in a SBC (without nitrious) you need to look to someone line United Racing. They have a 603 horsepower 406 stroker built on a Dart block with a 3 Year 100,000 mile warranty for a cool $12K...

Yup - tis expensive to build big horsepower from a small block.

the s10 weighs 2260 with me in it .

Originally Posted by climber567

the s10 weighs 2260 with me in it .

BZZZT. Faulty scale.

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