Thread: 350 spits fire when static timed

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Rick, I sent you a PM. Click "Notifications" on the top line banner, right side.

Greetings and salutations,
Thanks all the more for my schooling. I know enough to know I don't know nuttin. Here's what I have gained as knowledge;
Compression on all but #7 cylinders was 150 psi and 140 psi on #7. That should fall within limits of difference from cylinder to cylinder. Valve adjustment will be done in the morning.Meanwhile back to timing incase I didn't iterate it originally let me re-iterate that when the #1 piston is at as tdc as I can get it the timing mark on the balancer is IN range of 8 to 10 degrees on the plate.With that being said, a cold start , with vac. adv. plugged into the timed vac. port of carb. it starts and runs like a healthy pig in a dance contest....for a few good revs, but quickly turns into a one armed paper hanger with crabs, spitting thru carb. and dieseling when stopped. Attempts to restart exhibit signs of being far out of time,or motor drags and wont start. Bring the timing in by ear and all seems well(starting ,running ,stopping) but lacks that dead on sound. Like I said tomorrow we check valve adjustment and check heads for torque. Any chance there is a blown head gasket?
As Always Thanks Again
Rick

The previous paragraph was brought to you by, a total lack of punctuation. Beg ur pardon.

Forgot an important couple of questions.
1) Is there any value in adjusting lifters on a running motor,it's what I was brought up on. 1b) Does anyone know the recommended procedure for doing this cold,as in the preloads and how to determine this with Edelbrock RV kit Cam,lifters and roller rockers.
2) Do they still make motor specific Chiltons rather than the Manuals at Twilight/autozone. We've already changed the headlight fluids and rotated the air in the tires,etc.
Thanks ,
Rick

Sounds like you forgot the muffler bearings and blinker fluid.

Adjusting valves while motor is running is the easiest and messiest way.

Back it off till it ticks, run it down till it don't..

Now the rub:

No one seems to agree on the additional turn

Opinions vary from quarter to full.

Half turn is pretty safe.

Originally Posted by firebird77clone

and blinker fluid.

Come on now! Everyone knows you fill the blinkers with air! Geeeeesh!

Oops.

I can't believe I muffed that one.

Ok, I'll test ya good:

Muffler bearings: ball or cylindrical?

Originally Posted by firebird77clone

Oops.

Muffler bearings: ball or cylindrical?

Tapered Timken rollers on all mufflers - trust me on this... I know this for a fact....

Originally Posted by Mechanic Rick

Forgot an important couple of questions.
1) Is there any value in adjusting lifters on a running motor,it's what I was brought up on. 1b) Does anyone know the recommended procedure for doing this cold,as in the preloads and how to determine this with Edelbrock RV kit Cam,lifters and roller rockers.
2) Do they still make motor specific Chiltons rather than the Manuals at Twilight/autozone. We've already changed the headlight fluids and rotated the air in the tires,etc.
Thanks ,
Rick

In an attempt to get this train back on the tracks I'll toss in my $0.02 on your last two questions.
1) Everything I've seen in the last 30 years has said to adjust valves static. The last time I did the oil spray method (engine running, no valve cover) was on a flat tappet engine around 1985. 1b) Tech often references the Crankshaft Coalition, and he's written a bunch of their stuff too. I've found it to be an excellent reference, with backup for the why as well as instruction for the how. Adjusting Hydraulic Lifters - http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/w...raulic_lifters
2) Chilton's does make their Engine Overhaul books, but they're not the old Motors Manuals that I loved back in the day - last one I had was a 1979, I think, and I let them all get away from me sometime in the '80's. Link to Chilton's different engine books - Chevy, GM Engine Manuals: Rebuilding, Modifying, Performance, etc

No guarantees on staying on topic if you bait the animals....

Originally Posted by glennsexton

Tapered Timken rollers on all mufflers - trust me on this... I know this for a fact....

Granted, a good choice for stock to mild performance applications. However, for high performance you can't beat the flow rates of a helical spiral cut silica-nitrate with intricate heat sinks.

Yes, as Roger said, Do Not Feed The Animals.

And, back to the OP's last question, "could it be a head gasket?". Usually on SBC the head gasket blows between the the Siamese cylinders (two inner) because of the additional heat, which is indicated by the adjacent cylinder also having low compression. While that is the most usual, never rule out the unusual. First indications would be water in the oil and oil film on top of the coolant, I have even seen air bubbles blowing through the coolant from a head gasket leak. But, wether gasket leak to coolant or oil it should read on the plug (the plug different from the others), coolant will usually clean the plug, oil not so.
Your statement of timing set by ear raises the idle speed is indicative of advancing the timing, if you set timing by ear to highest idle speed it will always be to much advance and performance will suffer. So assuming your timing light set is correct and it runs good cold, but as it warms up it runs poorly and is hard to start hot. I would look for a coolant to cylinder leak (head gasket or cracked head), which could have been doctored with bars leak (or similar) by past owner.

Now, back to the zoo...

Which Holley carb do you have? you said 600cfm but there are several 600s-
does it have a manual or auto choke? What is the base jeyying and power valve you have?

Accel dist-----electronic or points?? a common thing on GM type dist advance mech in the upper dist is gummed up/rusted/etc inner shaft where drive shaft goes thru advance mech-particular problematic if advance springs are weaker set to increase curve sometimes they won't return to zero advance- also what amount of mech advance is in the plate?

The Holley carb needs to be removed so you can service adjust the throttle blades/plate to properly set the amount of opening at the transfer slots-they should as a rule of thumb look like little squares which would be .022x.022-----( I use a .025 drill to do a round hole and close the blades more as I put a bypass for idle air--but I also get $750 to do a pair of carbs)
Also make sure that your carb gaskets are on the correct way so no passages are blocked.

Timed/ported vacume advance is NOT the way that Chevy engines were set up------they used manifold vac to pull in extra timing at idle and lower/intermediate rpms for better part throttle and off idle response until mech took over in the advance curve abd by then the manifold vacume was falling off or none so only the mech advance was controlling the high rpm/load timing-------so, you have the timing on ported-this was a Ford thingie as they didn't use mech advance til 1957 and the ported/timed advance ran from a source at the carb venturie to advance the timing as rpm picked up-----and the way you have it set up you have no vac advance at idle and lower rpms but if the shaft/weights in the dist is sticking/binding not returning to none it will drag on starter, you'll pump the gas, when it finally ligths off will rev up higher than normal-----

Going on to adjusting the valves----it used to be touchie to do with lock nuts and adjusting screws but interferance fit rocker arms/screws made that much easier---the issue of being messy was brought on by the 1955 chev engines with the push rod fed oil to the top-those things would squirt oil like a whole team of drunken sailors--different people(probably Isky) made some little clipp thingies to put on the rockers to control the squirt--with the CENTER stud and an self locking adjusting nut it made setting the valves on its hydraulic rockers a nice piece of cake. Of course, those that switched to mech lifters had to do the feeler guage dance, but at least the chevs had exhaust manifolds that were lower and you didn't burn your hands like on the fords that came up higher ( gets complicated because of the different suspension systems?)

Ther is a liquid kit out there that you can use to pull air out of your cooling system thru that will change color if any exhaust gases are present-I'll have to look up th ename but maybe DennyW knows it------

time for refill on coffee

Originally Posted by firebird77clone

Sounds like you forgot the muffler bearings and blinker fluid.

Adjusting valves while motor is running is the easiest and messiest way.

Back it off till it ticks, run it down till it don't..

Now the rub:

No one seems to agree on the additional turn

Opinions vary from quarter to full.

Half turn is pretty safe.

The answer for the amount of that ADDITIONAL turn-------asbsolutely no turn beyond the clicking going away on hydraulics as that was what caused "pumpup", often miss diagnosed as valve float but was actually the lifter plunger travel area pumping up as valves were not following the cam lobes with weaker stock type springs and as a result the valves wouldn't completely close.

Also, if you want to discuss it--in a case of better springs and more real cam lobes--you really were set on where to set the adjustment-it will also depend on what you have for adjustment-for instance--3/8-24, and 7/16-20 will have a different amount of preload not only because of the thread pitch, but also the rocker ratio--

And of course-if you have shaft mounted rockers with the adjuster in the pushrod end of the arm, the preload will be directly in line with the thread pitch

ALSO-those rocker arm clips I mentioned are a Mr Gasket #1015 and available at AutoZone-of course you'll need to know make,year,model,engine,2-4 wheel drive,etc,etc

Originally Posted by glennsexton

Tapered Timken rollers on all mufflers - trust me on this... I know this for a fact....

I beg your pardon but, I run Torrington bearings on my stroker!

Thank you all,
Looks like its gonna stay timed by ear until we get the parts Techinspector1 recommended(new balancer and pointer plate).It still has issues once hot with starting but the battery is in the back of the vehicle and has starter issues from the past.The compression checked out good as did the valve adjustments,and its dead center of the distance between too advanced and too retarded. It starts(cold),runs, revs,and stops good,so there it is. Going after the rear seal and tranny leaks tomorrow.Took some pics with my phone but $@@12 dump computer won't recognise so a later date will post them.So in the mean time you folks rest assured you all were of help in this and I thank you all.
Have a safe,warm and happy holidays,
Rick
P.S. I purposely invited the "animals" as I can always use a good laugh(thanks for that) and I laughed so loud I got funny looks here. Here's my problem...What sort of mechanic goes on and on about muffler bearings without first stating the importance of the KINIBLY-PIN??? I can only hope the best for most of ya'lls muffler bearings. Don't forget the crazy-glue...........

Rick--------over many years I have worked on hundreds of those type engine set ups and a very common problem that I found with cases like your having was caused by the upper advance mechanism /shaft in the dist was hanging up-sometimes at low advance and then at more advance which would then cause starting issues and popping/spitting---------but go ahead and spend 3 or 4oo $ for a new dampner and marker-------