Thread: 327 Build??

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I have a 23 T Bucket with a 327. Im wanting to rebuild the motor. It was my fathers car and I really don't know anything about the motor. I do know its a 68 327 with points, double hump heads and 3 deuces. The carbs are Demons 98's. I would like to go thru the motor completely. I would also like to keep the 3 deuces. Im looking for some input on a good build. Would like to get 400 or better out of it. Should I replace the complete rotating assembly? Aluminum heads? I do plan on getting the block cleaned, zero decked and aligned bored. If I keep the crank I will also polished and campher it. I have been reading and there is a lot of opinions, builds, etc. Just looking for input from HotRod guys. After all its going in a 1600# car. I will be running a turbo 350 tranny and it has a 9" rear(don't know gear ratio).
Thanks

Welcome aboard! Nice to see you here, are you really ready for all that horsepower in such a light car? There's a couple guys here that know the ins and out of a SBC, they'll be along to help you out, enjoy the ride!

First question is what's the budget?

Welcome, congrats on the T Bucket, they are a ball of fun!
Are you having motor trouble, or do you just want to tinker and have fun? Personally, I enjoy working on my hot rods as much as I do driving them!
If the motor is tired and you are skilled in mechanics, then yes pull the motor apart. If you're not so skilled and the motor is running well as it is, why not just upgrade what you have a little at a time as you drive it and have fun. If you are just looking for a little more performance and reliability, I would upgrade the ignition to HEI first and recurve the mechanical advance (big difference in the seat of the pants performance).

The motor runs OK but it is not reliable at all. Every time I take it out I worry about it leaving me where I stop. I think a lot of it is the carbs and ignition. Like I said I know nothing about the motor not like with all my other vehicles I know everything about them. Not looking to break the bank as I want to replace some other stuff too. Im looking for more performance and a reliable motor. It only has a 7 gallon fuel cell in it. I want it to sound mean, but I don't want a pig either. I have talked to few machinist and they told me to trash the 327 and build a 350 or bigger. My dad would probably turn over in his grave if I did that. Thats why I would like to keep the 3 deuces. My father and I talked about what we wanted to do with the car, just never got it done. Now I will make it happen. My father was a Gear head and mechanic for 50+ years and everything I know about cars is thanks to him. I grew up around hotrods as he owned many makes and models. I Built my first Harley when I was 14........and he gave it to me when I got my license. Everything I am is because of my father. Im sorry if I got a little off track but when talking about the 23 it makes me think of him and all the stuff we did.

Before you spend money rebuilding an engine that may not need it, I would suggest converting the ignition from points to electronic as it will be more efficient and more reliable. See if that takes care of the problems. If you are still experiencing issues, then I would find a good carburetor man and have him check out your carbs. A simple rebuild may be all that is in order.

That 327 has more than enough power and plenty of parts available, no reason to switch to a 350.

My first thought is that you should address the known problems before you jump in on a full rebuild, if you are serious about keeping costs down.

That six pack is Bella cool, but they are known to be problematic.

How do you define performance? For me, the first tenet is reliability. The HP of a motor that won't start is zero. A simple HEI distributor that is rock- solid dependable, out performs a complicated crank triggered MSD set up that doesn't work reliably.

Personally I would not screw it up. I would just restore it and enjoy it. Any good mechanic can get enough out of that engine to scare most people. I'm sure I would have liked your dad.

Originally Posted by sefrayser

My father was a Gear head and mechanic for 50+ years and everything I know about cars is thanks to him. I grew up around hotrods as he owned many makes and models. I Built my first Harley when I was 14........and he gave it to me when I got my license. Everything I am is because of my father. Im sorry if I got a little off track but when talking about the 23 it makes me think of him and all the stuff we did.

Sounds a lot like my Dad, God bless may they RIP.
As far as the machinist telling you to ditch the 327, H-LL NO! They're great motors, have had and still do run them. If you're not using oil and have good compression, I would change the ignition and rebuild the carbs. Then drive the heck out of it, remembering your Dad with a little Smileage!
Enjoy!

I rebuilt the carbs as soon as I got it. It doesn't burn any oil. The performance is ok. When it runs right. The car is so light that 150 hp will make you think its performing. I went to my dads and went thru the garage pretty quick to see what he had. I remember some of the stuff but I found a 62 or 63(gotta get number)327 all buttoned up. I remember him buying it from a local guy who pulled it out of a corvette with less than 100k on it. I also found a 283 that I built back in the mid 80's. I had that motor zero decked, balanced and all that good stuff. Its still in the corner un assembled. I thought he got rid of that stuff. So I have other options. I may get a MSD Streetfighter and put on current motor and trick out one of the other motors. Which one??? The 283 does have a 327 crank, pink rods and the 327-350 hp cam(447 lift I believe). I searched around for rotating assemblies for 327 and cannot find any. Scat or eagle doesn't have them on their web site. I will at some point take the car apart and get it painted, run new brake lines, convert the 9" to disks and a few other things. I just wish my budget would allow me to do what my father and I talked about. I need some good weather and about a week to go thru the garage......lord knows I may have enough in there to sell and take care of the car. He collected Hess trucks and has about 300 die cast cars(1/24).

If it were mine I'd pull the dizzy and rebuild it if it doesn't have any side to side play, up and down can be fixed with thin brass shims, just don't make it too tight. Make sure the counter weights for the vacuum advance are free and smooth and then get a set of springs, they come in a kit, and after it's back together you can change back and forth with springs for best performance. I would also make sure the vacuum canister is in good working order and if not replace. I would install a Petronix unit with a matching coil to eliminate the points.
The next thing would be good quality cap and rotor, ones with high dieletric strength, that helps to eliminate cross fire.
Next would be a good quality set of plug wires, I prefer Taylor Spiral core, others are good, Moroso, Msd, etc but I would stay away from anything Accel.
I would also make sure that the brakes are in good working order, It's nice to go fast but you got to stop sometime.
A compression and leak down test can tell you the condition of the rings and valves. The compression, IMHO, should be at least 130 psi for each cylinder plus or minus 10%. If any cylinder leaks down quickly that's a good indication that either the rings or the valves aren't sealing properly and indicates a future tear down.
Hope this helps.

Re-reading the thread, along with the replies, my .02 is have the carbs rebuilt, and drop in a new HEI dizzy. Be sure to wire it with 12AWG or 10AWG stranded, feed through a relay, direct from the power distribution block (possibly the horn relay), and you'll be bullet proof.

Here is a link explaining the distribution block. Chevy specific, sorry.http://www.madelectrical.com/electri...evymain1.shtml

Originally Posted by sefrayser

I have a 23 T Bucket with a 327. Im wanting to rebuild the motor. It was my fathers car and I really don't know anything about the motor. I do know its a 68 327 with points, double hump heads and 3 deuces. The carbs are Demons 98's. I would like to go thru the motor completely. I would also like to keep the 3 deuces. Im looking for some input on a good build. Would like to get 400 or better out of it.

OK, first things first. Let's do a valve adjustment to get the cylinder pressure and manifold vacuum maxed out. This video is pretty simple, but doesn't take into account that there will be one helluva mess from oil squirting all over.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEV3Yz0kpDY
This video shows doing valve adjustment on an Oldsmobile V8 with poly-locks, which your motor probably doesn't have, but the thing I want to show you is the cutouts on the valve covers. Go down to the boneyard and buy two valve covers, take 'em home and cut the slots the way you see here. I used a Makita grinder with a thin cutoff wheel on it to cut mine years ago. Wear safety glasses. It will be a whole lot cleaner adjusting valves this way....Make the slot no wider than what it will take to get your socket on the adjusting nut.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCsRPxZ2SLw


Now that you have maxed out the cylinder pressure, do a compression test on the motor to determine if you have a player or not. Use a screw-in compression gauge and write down the cylinder number and pressure of each cylinder. Here's the gauge type you want to use.....
Actron/Compression tester CP7826 - Read Reviews on Actron #CP7826
Your heads will take a 14mm adapter on the gauge.
Here's the procedure:
1. Make certain the battery is fully charged.
2. Fire the motor and warm it up to operating temperature. Shut the motor off.
3. Remove the air cleaner.
4. Wire the primary carburetor throttle blade wide open so the motor can breathe.
5. Disconnect the coil power wire so you can't start a fire from the combustible mixture being blown out the spark plug holes.
6. Remove all spark plugs so the starter motor can turn the crankshaft easily without laboring.
7. Beginning with #1 cylinder, screw your gauge fitting in and tighten. Fire the starter and run the motor through at least 5 "chuffs" to bring the gauge up to the maximum reading for each cylinder. Watch the gauge and you will see when it is maxed out for each cylinder, but it usually takes at least 4 or 5 cycles to max out the gauge.
8. Write down the cylinder number and the max pressure observed for that cylinder and move on to the next cylinder.

A decent pressure for a low to mid compression 327 would be 130-150 psi, but it could be higher or lower depending on the static compression ratio of the motor and the cam that your pop used in the motor. It can also vary with the position of the cam in relation to the crank (phasing). Crane Cams engineers say that a max cylinder pressure of 165 psi would be the limit for pump gas without using other means such as a very tight squish band measurement to prevent detonation. I have seen motors over 200 psi run on pump gas without detonation, but everything must be right on the money with the motor to do that. Less than 120 would indicate a tired motor that would be ready for a rebuild.

A 327 in a 1600 lb. bucket is a great combination for everyday driving and some spirited driving on the weekends, but if it were mine, I would tone it down on the desire to make 400 hp with it. To do that will take out a lot of the drivability, cost a lot of money and decrease reliability. It's pretty easy to make 300 hp with a 327 and you could do it with a fairly mild cam that would exhibit good manners, generate good vacuum and get good fuel mileage. There is a big difference between having to dink with a high-horsepower motor and having a good solid mid-horsepower runner that will start easily and run well over a long period of time.

Originally Posted by sefrayser

Should I replace the complete rotating assembly? Aluminum heads? I do plan on getting the block cleaned, zero decked and aligned bored. If I keep the crank I will also polished and campher it. I have been reading and there is a lot of opinions, builds, etc. Just looking for input from HotRod guys. After all its going in a 1600# car. I will be running a turbo 350 tranny and it has a 9" rear(don't know gear ratio).
The motor runs OK but it is not reliable at all. Every time I take it out I worry about it leaving me where I stop. I think a lot of it is the carbs and ignition. Like I said I know nothing about the motor not like with all my other vehicles I know everything about them. Not looking to break the bank as I want to replace some other stuff too. Im looking for more performance and a reliable motor. It only has a 7 gallon fuel cell in it.

Hold on there big guy, you need to do the valve adjustments and compression tests before you begin buying stuff that you don't need. Find out what you have first and report back to us. As I said above, 300 hp is about all you need in a bucket and you can do that with the rotating assembly and heads you have currently. I am a proponent of zero decking the block, but you need to know what you have to work with. You need the measurement of the block deck height and the measurement of the stack of parts that will fill the block. If you'll slow down and have a little patience, I and others on this board can teach you how to determine all this stuff.

Originally Posted by sefrayser

I want it to sound mean.

Trust me, you don't. A lope in a motor is the sound of the motor being inefficient at lower rpm's. Cams that lope are used in RACE CARS because the motors are normally revved much higher than a street motor, so when you run a race cam on the street, the cam lopes because it was not designed to operate at low rpms that you use on the street. You lose drivability and manifold vacuum and the motor ends up needing stiff rear gears and a very loose torque converter to operate on the street. The other thing is that a race cam requires a higher static compression ratio than a street cam and the motor may or may not operate on pump gas without detonation. RACE CAMS are meant to be operated with RACE GAS, not pump gas.

Originally Posted by sefrayser

but I don't want a pig either.

Then don't use a race cam on the street.

Originally Posted by sefrayser

I have talked to few machinist and they told me to trash the 327 and build a 350 or bigger. My dad would probably turn over in his grave if I did that. Thats why I would like to keep the 3 deuces. My father and I talked about what we wanted to do with the car, just never got it done. Now I will make it happen. My father was a Gear head and mechanic for 50+ years and everything I know about cars is thanks to him. I grew up around hotrods as he owned many makes and models. I Built my first Harley when I was 14........and he gave it to me when I got my license. Everything I am is because of my father. Im sorry if I got a little off track but when talking about the 23 it makes me think of him and all the stuff we did.
Thanks

Disregard anyone who trash-talks the 327. It's a dandy little motor and has plenty of cubic inches to haul a 1600 lb. car around with vigor.

BOTTOM LINE:
Adjust the valves, test compression and get back to us.

.

NTFDAY and I think alike, I did the same thing in my current coupe and it is rock solid and reliable and I had used the same product in the Mustang years back.

If you can rebuild/overhaul a motorcycle, you can service the carbs. Just track down the service manual(s) for those carbs and become familiar with them before disassembly. Besides, I think your Dad will be watching over your shoulder during the rebuilds.

Thanks for all the response. Everyone gave me some really good advice. I will perform the checks that Inspector 1 recommended. I will get a new MSD....Streetfighter with blaster coil?

Sometimes there is interference between the distributor and the rear carb on a 3-2 setup. Pay attention to what the manufacturer of the distributor says about that. Most skinny-body distributors will work with any setup, but an HEI large cap design is where you can run into clearance problems.

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