Thread: Engine rebuild tips and help

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Thanks for reading and considering my posts--------I've rebuilt lots of small block engines and as time goes on good cores are hard to find so we have been leaning toward the later stuff unless someone wants to stay more original----(numbers matching) For the original look under the hood, we use a lot of Dart blocks and stroker kits------4.125 bore---------
If a person has a lower mile oringinal motor and wants to step it up, tHE Edelbrock package is a solid recommendation------Headers is the last thing you need on a street engine in a modest driver------the rear end and possibly overdrive transmission is better route to spend those dollars-------assuming that a person is keeping there ride forever and not going to trade it in in a couple years--------headers will create more problems than fix escept for maybe some swapping of power plants/chassis ( unless racing is involved where all out performance is involved--no dial ins)

The Edelbrock package will also work nicely with down the road addition of the sniper kits-----

I'd suggest that you do a cylinder leakage/compression test to verify decent ring/piston condition and if decent numbers just do the Edelbrock package-------they are well grouped and will do the 400+hp which will break your rear end ------

Morning Vinny:

First off I want to say I really appreciate your attitude and the interaction – seeking advice and pondering the results. Jerry Clayton is a ledged in his own time and has forgot more about building cars and engines than any ten people might know. I’m glad to see him engage here. I would also second the Edelbrock kit approach and have used a couple of them over the years. They’re about 90% complete and you’ll need a trip to the hardware store for a couple bolts but overall the kits are excellent. The Performer RPM is a great manifold and this particular kit will work well with any square bore delivery system (carburetor or EFI). I am overly cautious about making sure the block is perfectly square before bolting down aluminum heads. If you go this route, make sure you use a head gasket with a copper wire ring (I like Fel-Pro P1010). These gaskets will help prevent damaging the aluminum heads when torqued and provide an excellent combustion seal. Follow the torque sequence recommended by Edelbrock to avoid disappointment.

About the flat tappet cam – I’d recommend you reconsider as the benefits of a roller are paramount during break in. Roller cams need zero break in but to install them in a “non-roller” block one must adapt. Hydraulic-roller tappets are 0.630” taller than hydraulic flat tappets (thus they use shorter pushrods). The factory compensated by increasing the height of the roller-tappet boss in the block. In addition, factory roller blocks have holes tapped in the lifter galley to attach a “spider” that places a load on the lifters to prevent them from rotating in the lifter boss. After market conversion requires lifters connected by a bar to keep them aligned and prevent rotation. Rollers also use different valve springs (stiffer), and even a different pushrod for the fuel pump. Roller cams must also not move more than 0.005 inch fore or aft in the block. This requires a roller-cam button (fits inside the center hole in the cam gear) to prevent back-and-forth movement. Even with all of the above, I still recommend roller as the friction in the valve train is greatly reduced and new oils have been reformulated (little to no zinc) in a manner which reduces their ability to handle the pressure of metal-on-metal of flat tappet cams.

I also understand that a flat tappet cam is less money and they are is okay if installed with the correct lube and you break it in religiously as per manufacturer’s specifications. I like Moroso 35000 moly paste. A 4 ounce tube is about $20 but that’s money well spent. Edelbrock has selected a good cam for this package; however, it is a flat tappet cam so you’ll need to pay attention to break-in. The cam is a proven part that will give you great performance on the street with a lot of mid-range snap. It will probably have a bit of a lope but not to the extent that your friends will wonder if you have a flatulating elephant under the hood. Pay close attention here – unless you’re driving a Harley, rumpty rump on the street is the sign of a poor design – period.

To break in the cam - once you fire the engine, immediately bring to 3,000 rpm. Timing should be adjusted to 8-10 degrees BTDC to keep the heat down during break-in. Get the engine running fairly smoothly and vary the engine speed from 1500-3000 RPM in a slow, to moderate, acceleration-deceleration cycle. If something doesn’t sound right, if the temp spikes above 200 degrees, or you see any leaks, shut the engine off immediately and check out and fix the source. Upon restart, immediately resume the high idle speed cycling. Continue the varying speed for 20–30 minutes. Shut down and drain the oil – if there’s no shiny metal in the oil you’re probably okay. Use a zinc (ZDDP) additive for the next 1500 miles and then change the oil again.

I like 1 2500 RPM stall with the Edelbrock combination. It should be just about perfect – especially with 3.73 gears (you do know that this will not be a “good-gas-mileage” build, right?)

You considering exhaust and rear end as “necessary extras” helps a lot with overall budget. I still would do the rear end before the engine as it will certainly put a smile on your face – even with your current engine.

Regards,
Glenn

Originally Posted by jerry clayton

Thanks for reading and considering my posts--------I've rebuilt lots of small block engines and as time goes on good cores are hard to find so we have been leaning toward the later stuff unless someone wants to stay more original----(numbers matching) For the original look under the hood, we use a lot of Dart blocks and stroker kits------4.125 bore---------
If a person has a lower mile oringinal motor and wants to step it up, tHE Edelbrock package is a solid recommendation------Headers is the last thing you need on a street engine in a modest driver------the rear end and possibly overdrive transmission is better route to spend those dollars-------assuming that a person is keeping there ride forever and not going to trade it in in a couple years--------headers will create more problems than fix escept for maybe some swapping of power plants/chassis ( unless racing is involved where all out performance is involved--no dial ins)

The Edelbrock package will also work nicely with down the road addition of the sniper kits-----

I'd suggest that you do a cylinder leakage/compression test to verify decent ring/piston condition and if decent numbers just do the Edelbrock package-------they are well grouped and will do the 400+hp which will break your rear end ------

Your help is greatly appreciated. Not to worry, this will finally be the push I need to have a new rear dif put in. I certainly don’t plan on selling this car ever. I built it with my grandfather when I was 14 and it’s not going anywhere.
Headers are just something I want even though I know I don’t need them. I’ll save that for down the road anyway.

Again thank you for your help!

Originally Posted by glennsexton

Morning Vinny:

First off I want to say I really appreciate your attitude and the interaction – seeking advice and pondering the results. Jerry Clayton is a ledged in his own time and has forgot more about building cars and engines than any ten people might know. I’m glad to see him engage here. I would also second the Edelbrock kit approach and have used a couple of them over the years. They’re about 90% complete and you’ll need a trip to the hardware store for a couple bolts but overall the kits are excellent. The Performer RPM is a great manifold and this particular kit will work well with any square bore delivery system (carburetor or EFI). I am overly cautious about making sure the block is perfectly square before bolting down aluminum heads. If you go this route, make sure you use a head gasket with a copper wire ring (I like Fel-Pro P1010). These gaskets will help prevent damaging the aluminum heads when torqued and provide an excellent combustion seal. Follow the torque sequence recommended by Edelbrock to avoid disappointment.

About the flat tappet cam – I’d recommend you reconsider as the benefits of a roller are paramount during break in. Roller cams need zero break in but to install them in a “non-roller” block one must adapt. Hydraulic-roller tappets are 0.630” taller than hydraulic flat tappets (thus they use shorter pushrods). The factory compensated by increasing the height of the roller-tappet boss in the block. In addition, factory roller blocks have holes tapped in the lifter galley to attach a “spider” that places a load on the lifters to prevent them from rotating in the lifter boss. After market conversion requires lifters connected by a bar to keep them aligned and prevent rotation. Rollers also use different valve springs (stiffer), and even a different pushrod for the fuel pump. Roller cams must also not move more than 0.005 inch fore or aft in the block. This requires a roller-cam button (fits inside the center hole in the cam gear) to prevent back-and-forth movement. Even with all of the above, I still recommend roller as the friction in the valve train is greatly reduced and new oils have been reformulated (little to no zinc) in a manner which reduces their ability to handle the pressure of metal-on-metal of flat tappet cams.

I also understand that a flat tappet cam is less money and they are is okay if installed with the correct lube and you break it in religiously as per manufacturer’s specifications. I like Moroso 35000 moly paste. A 4 ounce tube is about $20 but that’s money well spent. Edelbrock has selected a good cam for this package; however, it is a flat tappet cam so you’ll need to pay attention to break-in. The cam is a proven part that will give you great performance on the street with a lot of mid-range snap. It will probably have a bit of a lope but not to the extent that your friends will wonder if you have a flatulating elephant under the hood. Pay close attention here – unless you’re driving a Harley, rumpty rump on the street is the sign of a poor design – period.

To break in the cam - once you fire the engine, immediately bring to 3,000 rpm. Timing should be adjusted to 8-10 degrees BTDC to keep the heat down during break-in. Get the engine running fairly smoothly and vary the engine speed from 1500-3000 RPM in a slow, to moderate, acceleration-deceleration cycle. If something doesn’t sound right, if the temp spikes above 200 degrees, or you see any leaks, shut the engine off immediately and check out and fix the source. Upon restart, immediately resume the high idle speed cycling. Continue the varying speed for 20–30 minutes. Shut down and drain the oil – if there’s no shiny metal in the oil you’re probably okay. Use a zinc (ZDDP) additive for the next 1500 miles and then change the oil again.

I like 1 2500 RPM stall with the Edelbrock combination. It should be just about perfect – especially with 3.73 gears (you do know that this will not be a “good-gas-mileage” build, right?)

You considering exhaust and rear end as “necessary extras” helps a lot with overall budget. I still would do the rear end before the engine as it will certainly put a smile on your face – even with your current engine.

Regards,
Glenn

Lots of info! I appreciate it Glenn.

I’ll be sure to take all the necessary steps in ensure my block is square, and the pistons and rings are still good before just slapping on a new set of heads. The break in process is something I’ve been finding a lot of info on as well. So any more is always welcome. I appreciate it. I’ve always heard roller cams are the way to go, but I have no problem sticking with a flat tappet.

Y’all have convinced me to swap the dif out first. I’m looking for shops that can do dif work right now. I understand it’s a job best left to professionals.

And don’t worry, this is no daily. The lower the mpg, the higher the smiles per mile.

I appreciate everyone’s input here. This thread got a lot of questions I had answered. I’ve also been on other forums and information sources but this was by far the fastest I’ve gotten good information and actual answers to my questions.

Originally Posted by NegativeZero

I appreciate everyone’s input here. This thread got a lot of questions I had answered. I’ve also been on other forums and information sources but this was by far the fastest I’ve gotten good information and actual answers to my questions.

Oh shucks... I guess that's what happens when a bunch of old hot rodders and long time industry professionals get together. Thanks for your willingness to learn and participate Vinny - you're a breath of fresh air.

Originally Posted by glennsexton

Oh shucks... I guess that's what happens when a bunch of old hot rodders and long time industry professionals get together. Thanks for your willingness to learn and participate Vinny - you're a breath of fresh air.

Haha, I appreciate it!

I got a buddy who’s planning an LS build in an old oval dirt car he picked up. I’m sure I’ll be back here pretty soon.