Thread: sb 350, is 900hp with forced induction possible

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I am at a cross roads right now. Should i go rat or stay mouse? My mouse is running 320 to the wheels dynoed. All i want is a high 10 sec capable 350 powered street car. I realize is not all engine also but i have to rely on lightening up the car and removing my crummy 10 bolt and 3 speed for something a bit more hungry. I am am new to working on cars seeing as my stepfather always did engine work for me. I am always learning and eager. I am currently looking through receipts to give the specs on what the car has done to it. and i will post that up later if needed.

Originally posted by zero_proto
I am at a cross roads right now. Should i go rat or stay mouse?

I'm partial to cubic inches, more the better... But a correctly prepared 350 can be prurdy' strong.

Originally posted by Streets
Sure, Just don't forget to wear yer Red cape with the big S on the front when drivin' it down the ¼ Mile...

to quote for the sane among us-Probably not. But why do you need 900Hp? anything over 500 is not really cost efficent usually. Unless your getting a sponsor, or dont plan to drive the thing on the street. Stay reasonable.

I understand the whole streetability thing, what i really just want is a 10 sec street car really just a weekend warrior. I'm in the military and i'm always going out to sea so thats how i save up money. I might just be getting ahead of myself. I guess thats my goal for right now. I understand that gas will become an issue, but at 20 in san diego, cruising in the sun, the joy of driving an all american muscle car is a wonderful feeling. Striking fear into little ricers and shutting down those who oppose. It also helps with the females. I know a 10 sec 350 is possible, i just do not know how to get there so i am going step by step.

One question for all i guess.
What is under the hood (hp, tq), drivetrain, and times? So that i can get an idea.

Allright, first step. Write down all of your modifications to date. See what will adapt new parts to it, and leave what wont. There is no point in saving up for a new blower/turbo if you dint have the right intake or heads. For the now, I would keep towards the heads, the exhaust, the intake and the ignition. When they are all set up properly, and your engine is capable of handling 900HP(Forged crank/Iron psitons/File-Fit rings) then go for it. Untill then, just keep working towards having a Bulletproof engine.

i have the ignition takin care of, i have vortech heads, and i am running a 750 on top of a edlelbrock rpm manifold. I'm not sure on the iron pistons.....still checking on that.

If i put iron pistons on would that drop my compression.

I also am not really up to boring the block, but .030 over with a 400 crank would get me a 383, would it be smart just to put a 400 crank in?

I know 900 may not to easy i want to get as close as possible.

Ive never heard of "Iron" pistons.... I think you mean forged aluminums like Arias, or Lunati.

As for running 10's, Hp and Tq are only one part of the equation, the other is TRACTION, here's an exampe.
I have 2 buddies with really sick street-driven cars..

One is a 1969 Camaro, similar to yours except dark green. He's running a full built 468 LS-7 pushing 613 WHP on a chassis dyno.
This car *should* run 10's given the light weight of the body.....But he can't because all it does is spin like crazy, drag leaf springs and traction bars don't cut it, neither does the 9" slick he can fit in his stock wheel wells.

Another has a tubbed out '71 Camaro, running an "as is" GM crate 502 rated at a mere 500HP at the crank. He gets good traction as you would guess, and clicks off 10.40's all day.


So, add in ladder bars to your cost, as well as a full drag suspension set-up.

Another thing is that to get 900hp on a SBC, turbo's will be easier then SC.... And turbo's dont run cheap.... I'm afraid to even calculate the cost.

Nothing you have now will be of any use, so here's a few items you can START pricing;

- Stock GM small-blocks have been known to crack at high Hp levels when driven more than 2 minutes a day, so you'll need a Dart or better block.

- Forced induction NEEDS fuel injection if you want any control or power, so your intake/carb is of no use.

- No amount of porting will give vortech heads the necessary flow to support 900hp, you'll probably need 18 degree or better.

- Forged aftermarket crank, forged H-beam rods, GOOD forged pistons (not low-end TRW's), metal head gaskets.

- Crank girdle, high strength fasteners, dry-sump anyone?

Transmission? Differential? Tuning? Roll cage?

Notice we haven't even started adding the turbo's, intercooler, BOV's, wastegate, exhaust, fuel pump, fuel system, etc..


Its very easy to throw out Hp numbers, but actually getting them is another story. Set a REALISTIC goal, try for 500hp which is enough of a challenge (and expense) out of a small-block - and if you have traction and tuning, is enough to get you in the 10's.

Yeah it is easy to throw out numbers, in the next two months i will be workin on the traction part. A friend of mines said to stick with my 10 bolt and just beef it up it would be a whole lot cheaper. He also suggests to stay and auto and not to go manual, because i wanted to put in a tko 5sp, and he has one. Before i start doing anymore engine work i'm focusing on getting my car sticking to the ground. As for tubbing out the rear of the car to accomadate some big gums. What does that usually run in price range, i'm currently saving money and i go out to sea for 2 months in two weeks and when i come back i should have a little over 3000.

I now realize that 900 hp is some stupid pipe dream, but a more obtainable goal like is 500. I should be running around 400 to the crank since i am running 320 to the wheels. Forced induction is off to the side for now, i've even considered starting with a bare block (small block) and building it up slowly. There are so many options. And i have a long road ahead of me so i guess i better make the right decisions. Thanx for the advice BlueDSM.

A big block 454 will almost put you there stock ( in the 10's ) so I say go RAT!

I am a Big block freak myself but you can make your SBC run in the 10's if you want to put some time & money into it.

On top of some of the suggestions you were given let me just add one thing.......Light=Fast!

Take any unnesesary wieght off the car by replacing what you can with fiberglass or just plain removing pounds from the car.

Rule of thumb is -100# = -tenth

BG

Traction and reducing weight is a great starting point!

Tubbing a vehicle requires a new rear "sub-frame" with a shortened differential, and either ladder bars or a 4-link suspension, as well as cutting out all the floor pans from the back seat rearward and replacing it with new sheet-metal..... This is a bit of an extreme though, and depending on where you live, cops might not be too happy about it.

You can buy the sub-frame and floor pans from Jegs or S&W, and you'll spend around $2000 in parts, but the real challenge is all the welding and cutting thats required to install "tubs"... It looks super-cool, but it blows away any chance of being a "sleeper", and it really is overkill for a street car... I mentioned before to illustrate the traction point.

"Tubs" do look cool though....

They ride really bad too, and did I mention they were a LOT of work?


A better option would be to install ladder bars in your existing chassis (with frame connectors of course) and to take extend your current rear wheel wells (called a "mini-tub").
To understand what I mean, open your trunk and take a look at the wheel wells...... Notice where the frame is? There is approximately 2-3" between where the wheel well ends and where the frame is - You basically extend the wheel well up to the rear subframe.
This will allow a 12' wide wheel, which will give plenty of traction.

For the ladder bars, just buy a complete ladder bar kit and weld it onto your differential, which brings up the next point.

A 8.5" 10-bolt is pretty decent, it even has axles that are the same diameter as a 12-bolt (betcha' didnt know that huh), and Ive been told it can take upwards of 600hp.....BUT if I was going to go through all this work, I would rather spend the extra 400-500 initially and pick up a good Ford 9" or GM 12-bolt (if youre brand loyal) just for peace of mind and cheap insurance. I know for a fact that those diffs can take slicks and hard runs without failing, where as the 10-bolt Ive heard of taking power, but never seen.

As for weight;
- Converting from power steering to manual steering sheds about 50lbs or so.

- Stick the battery in the trunk for better weight transfer/traction

- The sound deadening crap under the carpet weighs around 20-25lbs

- Do you need the heater? the core/motor is approximately 20lbs.

- Aluminum light-weight wheels make a HUGE difference due to centrifugal force..... I remember in college physics I calculated that @ 60mph, every 1lb taken off the wheel is the same as taking approximately 8lbs off the body due to centrifugal multiplication of the weight. There was an issue of Car Craft where they ganed 2/10's in the 1/4 mile just by changing wheels!
Keep in mind stock wheels weigh well over 20lbs, and thanks to technology, we can get 15" wheels as light as 8lbs....Sweeeeet!

- Stock brakes are heavy as heck as well! Reducing weight here is easy with aluminum calipers and lighter rotors. As well as the with the wheels, youre reducing unsprung weight which noticably improves braking and handling.

- Aluminum heads/intakes/water pump help as well.

Another thing to think about is to remove "power robbing" accesories from your engine. Electric water pumps with electric fans are a good start, as are reduction pulleys....

Sorry for the lenght, I type pretty fast and can get carried away

yeah i was looking at my summit catalog. I didnt understand what a minitub was until now. I already put my battery in my trunk i am in the process of taking the sound deadening crap. My friend brought that to my attention.

I might just go with a 9 inch since it is alot easier to mess with. I still have the stock rallies, i am just looking for some nice rims to fit the car, i seen them to i think they are in the last issue of Hot Rod mag or one of those with the 173mph camaro, a splitting image of mine.

So with rims will come a whole new brake set up. I'll take the heater core out too, i'm in socal anyways. I've also considered the whole electric fan thing, water pump etc.... and getting a serpentine belt kit.

This is all really helpful, another question. Why does the car run faster with the alternator disconnected, it always does when i do it with my car, or am i just crazy?

If you drive on the street alot then i wouldn't recomend going with an electric water pump. They do free up some HP but they really are geared alot more towards drag strip use and you may experiance some heat probs with one on the street.

BG

Originally posted by techinspector1
I mean, how much does an alternator weigh, anyhow????

8 Lbs. 6 Oz. ?

.............. Yer' Right ........... Just couldn't resist the smadaz answer. He He He

Totally agree with you tech, my buddy has a 67 stang drag car and he wont put a alt. on it so we have to charge the car after every run....i really dont see not having one being THAT benefical

Even with my car being 80-90% strip use it will have a alt for sure theres just no reason not to.

BG