Thread: HR & HP update, bodies and chassis

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When the Goodguys roll into town, big things happen. The Hot Rods and Horse Power guys, replicators of a steel '32 3 window coupe and retractable top '32 "roadster", had a major display there. The 3 window body I saw at SEMA last fall I reported on earlier, basically, it needed a lot of work. It was claimed to be a pre-production assemblage of reject panels, only put together for the sake of having a talking piece for the show. For that, it worked fine....................there was a lot of apparent interest.

Good news. They're in production now, and had a new body on display. It was # 18 and bound for Brizio Street Rods after leaving here. It is a whole lot better quality than the one I saw last November. Unfortunately, it's still going to need a fair bit of work to make it high quality paint ready. In particular, the beautiful reveal around the windshield opening is especially ripply, almost looks hammer formed rather than stamped. Also the rounded part at the back of the roof turret and the corners of same were fairly lumpy. On top of the quarters, the area around the forward corners of the deck lid opening were pretty uneven, and felt like they "curved" down to meet the plane of the deck lid. Those were the worst areas, the rest was small stuff that would probably have required work even if you bought a new one in '32 (remember, they were FAR from perfect back then).

I suspect a lot of people will be disappointed at having to pay $18,500 and still needing to do that much body work. On the plus, you don't have to fight the results of the tin worm, the chop is already done, and the metal isn't fatiqued. On the other hand, they were talking about having to raise the price another $5000.00!!!!! It IS expensive to make these things.

I'm still impressed that anyone took on the challenge of doing this body in reproduction steel. It's an amazing accomplishment to be where they are today, and one heck of a financial commitment to bring this body to market. It remains to be seen if there are enough well heeled enthusiasts out there to sustain a market for them.

Another product that has been mentioned on this forum, as well as hyped in a number of rod rags, is their "roadster" prototype with the folding top that disappears under the tulip panel behind the seating area, has roll up windows (the reason I put roadster in quotation marks, because real roadsters don't have side glass), and extended length doors, among other features. The prototype is a completed car (in highboy livery), and we were able to crawl all over it, sit in it, and "play" with the non-power top. Having owned a deuce roadster, I'm here to tell you, it's a thing of beauty and function. The car was developed by a company in Detroit called ASC. Originally the name stood for American Sunroof Company. Their purpose in life was to act as a subcontractor to the major auto makers by installing "factory" sunroof systems in many makes and models of cars. From there, they naturally branched into making convertibles out of coupes for the big boys. They did the convertible Mustangs from the late '80's on for example. So it's no surprise that the top on this "roadster" is both a visual and functional piece of art. It both looks good and works beautifully. The rest of the assembly is top notch. The fit of the doors and other panels is supperb. But, keep in mind, this is a prototype, hand assembled (ironically from mostly Brookville roadster parts) and much modified to put on a good show. ASC is also contracted to assemble the production 3 window coupes, so what the "roadster" bodies look like when available in "a year, or so" (?!?) is only a guess. While the "roadster" body is far less complicated than the coupe, I might still be concerned as to how much work it will require to finish. Pricing is $11,900, for just the basic body shell. Add the unique windshield, side window systems, and top assembly, and the price goes to $18,500, a seemingly popular number with HR&HP. They mentioned too, that these will likely increase in price by "a couple thousand dollars soon". If I had wanted a complete roller, that being their new, complete chassis (described later), the whole body assembly, with front sheetmetal, and a fuel tank, they would have sold that package for $31,900. Only $2500 down to secure a serial number. Their plan is to build a first run of 100 bodies when the series is "sold out", and then produce more as the market demands. Again, it will be interesting to see how the market responds. They claim that "40 or so" have been reserved to date.

Some impressions about the prototype. Esthetically, the car is a major babe!! Why someone hasn't done this kind of body, meaning hidden top and roll up windows, yet retaining the sleek roadster profile, before, I don't know. It's an idea long past due. I think the line of people interested in this kind of car could be a long one. What will get in the way of market success, potentially, will be cost and ergonomics. Now, in reality, saying the words roadster and ergonomics in the same sentence is a dangerous thing. Roadsters require a different....................attitude...........perspective.................state of mind. You need to be a partial bubble off to do much serious driving in one. Your sidekick (wife, husband, buddy, whatever), if you take one along, needs to be a bit of a free spirit also. Driving one subjects you to wind, noise, excessive sunshine (hopefully) and/ or rain...........maybe even snow!!!! And they're more fun than the law allows!!!!! But they can test your will and desire to enjoy the drive. That's where this car has a leg up. With the easy working, and readily stowable, top, you're only moments away from overhead protection. Roll up the side windows, and you have all the comforts of a closed car. Even air conditioning will make sense....................imagine that on a roadster! The trade off is how "slinky" they've made it. The top is chopped pretty low, and the windshield is pretty much a 5 inch gun slit. At 6', my comfort and sight line were seriously compromised. Now, they claim that that will be easily solved in the production version. Because they wanted to have the prototype ready for viewing this summer season they used the afore mentioned Brookville body components, and a readily available frame. As such, it doesn't incorporate the planned frame and floor modifications that will drop the seat another two inches. And the seat they used was an off the shelf bucket that has a moderately high bottom cushion/frame, which the production one will reduce. So, they expect to gain another 3-4 inches of head room without changing the top or chop. Still, I think the sight line is going to be pretty narrow vertically. Any of you who have driven an radically chopped car know what I mean. It can be pretty restrictive with the top up. Top down, visibility is only hampered by the upper rail of the windshield frame, a minor obstruction.

Their frame is a stamped steel piece of work. It's outter rails are a double "C" channel, interlocked to form an extremely strong box section. This should give unprecedented structural regidity in a '32 frame. This will be especially appreciated by topless car owners who dread the annoying cowl shake that most cars suffer from as they pass over uneven road surfaces. The center cross member is designed to further strengthen the chassis, and give the afore mentioned ability to drop the floor for increased interior space. I didn't get any prices, but they promise to be competitive with what's already on the market, while offering more strength, and build options than those others.

Their front fenders are also quite nice. They fit the chassis profile quite well ( a problem for most reproductions in the past). At $1100 each, buyer expectation will be high as regards quality. By and large they shouldn't be too disappointed, although I did overhear an excited exchange between a potential customer and one of the HR&HP reps. The front edge sheetmetal, where it is formed around the bead wire, is a bit wobbly, and there's a whoopie in the top surface of the fender where it does that back arch as it swoops down to the running board. The potential buyer was pretty much told that that was the best they could do. Do these flaws fully detract from the value of these fenders? Only each buyer can decide that. If you're lucky enough to find some very good originals at a better price, then it's only a function of how much work they require in comparison. The only other viable alternative I'm aware of are the Brookville units at a couple hundred bucks less. They require some work too, so you have to decide which alternative works best for you.

All in all, these are very interesting products. There were gangs of people around these bodies and frames every time I went by. There's no doubt there is a lot of interest in high quality, steel reproductions. Will there be enough people willing to part with the dough to support this effort? Gotta wait and see I guess!!

copyright 2003

I took a few pics of the body and frame. Their work sure looked good, but as you said, a little spendy.
Here's the body:

Larry

The rear frame:

The front frame and fenders:

Even in the photos it looks better than the one I saw at LA Roadster show. The fit of the doors is better and the deck lid is better. Joker

Good input joker. I would expect, as they get further into production, that quality should increase (of course, until and if they get to a point where the tooling begins to wear out). They seemed pretty defensive about questions pertaining to the "roughness" this time around, so I suspect that they've got the process about as fine tuned as they can do economically.

Since Larry has put up the chassis photo I'll add another observation. While I like the design and execution of the chassis overall, I was less impressed with the way they dealt with the support hardware for the air bag system. That box at the rear of the frame precludes two major items. One, the traditional, stock configuration, fuel tank. You're left with having to mount it in the trunk area somehow. One way or the other you lose trunk space. Some would argue that getting the tank away from the rear, thus reducing the dangers of collision damage, is a good thing. Point taken, but still "un-traditional". Two, routing exhaust to the rear with a triangulated four bar setup is difficult enough normally. With that box, there is nowhere to run the tubing. You're pretty much stuck with dropping a truncated tailpipe in front of the axle. I'm less enthralled with that approach due to the potential for exhaust fume entry to the passenger compartment. Perhaps if they'd made the box narrower, along the dimensions of the stock tank, there'd have been a nominal amount of space to route the pipes.

Neat body, but that's gonna be a bunch of money for the average rodder, I think. Looks like I'll have to stick to the "wrap your --- in fiberglass. Great photos and info, thanks for the posts.

Thanks for the thorough update Bob - as they say, you wanna play you gotta pay! That top sure looks neat, wonder if the other body makers will jump on the bandwagon...have a good one.

Jordan

I just ordered a set of those HR &HP rails for the coupe I'm building. From what I've seen I'm impressed, and from talking to a couple of guys that have actually seen and touched them they say they're BIGTIME better than the American Stamping ones. We'll see , I guess, when I get them home!

Hey topsterguy, be sure to keep us posted on what ya think of them.
Larry

That body sure does look really nice. Lots of little details, I like the door edges and rounded corners, everything really flows. What if they were to narrow that rear box and put it under the front bench (or sunken there abouts). 90o fittings fer the air to get em laying down good the distance.

Well folks, I got the new rails from HR&HP home and I have to say I'm impressed! The quality of the stamping is number 1 and the way the "notch" is stamped in in the rear is perfect. There's no wrinkling or mis shaped areas at all and the boxing plates are well worth buying with the rails. I paid $725 for the rails and $100 for the plates and it seems like a good deal to me. I also bought them off Russ Meeks in Oregon and him and his wife Lona were easy to deal with and I'd reccommend them for sure!