Thread: Brake Booster riddle - can you solve it?

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You all know I love my old school buick finned drums and I'll be darn if I am going to take them off and put disk brakes in the their place!!

You also know they really don't break worth a you-know-what. I know I can't expect miracles from adding a power booster but I was told a power booster would improve break performance by about 30% or more. Good enough for me! 30% more is more than deedlee squat. Sign me up!

NOW HERE IS THE RIDDLE PART:

I have weird custom cross members on my frame that are (SEE PHOTO BELOW) in the way and unless we cut through the frame we cannot fit a conventional power booster/master cylinder unit.

So the next best thing is a remote booster I could shlap a bit further down (on the other side of the cross member, or anywhere else under my frame). I have room, just not enough room to fit the current lareger round remote boosters found on the market today... Unless you guys know of a smaller booster on the market I don't know about (send link).

ANY SUGGESTIONS?

I don't know but from the picture it seems you have a lot of room before you get to the trans pan in depth why not just lower the M/C and booster a bit. Will it fit then??

Before you think about boosters, have you determined what pedal ratio you have? It maybe easier to alter this than fit additional hardware. I like a 6:1 or a 7:1 pedal ratio without using a booster/servo.
Boosters are usually used for discs because of the higher pressures needed and they lessen the driver effort needed to operate discs brakes.
Another thing to consider is high lift cams can cause the booster to run out of vacuum at tickover (especially in traffic when you need your brakes!!), the smaller boosters (the 7" under the floor types) are very prone to this.
I guess you have 40 ford brakes with buick drums that are the non energising type? Are the linings adjusted ok?
Mel

I'm thinkin' along the lines of Mel's questions instead of a booster. Do you know the diameter of the master cylinder? Did you know you can get more pressure from the same amount of leg effort with a smaller diameter master cylinder? The pedal will move further than it does now, but will be easier to push and therefore will exert more pressure on the wheel cylinders with the same amount of leg effort you are using now.

By the way, I just viewed your site and I'm very, very jealous.....

This months Rod & Custom has an article on a new electric booster system that looks pretty neat. The company is called ABS power brakes. I'd bet they are pricey,but ya might check em out. They are located in Orange,California.
www.abspowerbrake.com

Faith: I scoured all of your pictures to see if I could get a good look at your backing plates, and found none that were clear. What I was looking for was to see if you had '39 to '42 Ford backing plates, or '46 to '48 Ford backing plates.

How you tell the difference is that the early ones have four 3/4 inch socket sized adjustment bolts on the outside of the backing plate, and the later ones only have two.

I think I saw 4 in one picture, and that is what I have on my '27. If so, two of these are used for "minor" adjustments, and two are used for "major" adjustments. Brian will tell you that it takes some playing around to adjust these properly, because he posted a thread on this a while back.

I suspect that your brakes are not set up right, or adjusted properly.

Seriously, the brakes you have are fine for this weight of a rod. You just need to work out some of the bugs on it. They will never "feel" like your modern SUV you drive, but they are still very effective.

Don

Originally Posted by Itoldyouso

Faith: I scoured all of your pictures to see if I could get a good look at your backing plates, and found none that were clear.
Seriously, the brakes you have are fine for this weight of a rod. You
Don

Ask and you shall receive

Is this photo what you needed?

Originally Posted by HiboyGal

Ask and you shall receive

Is this photo what you needed?

The long shoe needs to be in front on early Ford non-engizing brakes -this looks to be backwards to me - also looks like only the top is hitting the drum.
Turn 'em around and center properly by means of the bottom pivot eccentrics/adjusters and you should have acceptable brakes. Not a fun project....

Originally Posted by techinspector1

I'm thinkin' along the lines of Mel's questions instead of a booster. Do you know the diameter of the master cylinder? Did you know you can get more pressure from the same amount of leg effort with a smaller diameter master cylinder? The pedal will move further than it does now, but will be easier to push and therefore will exert more pressure on the wheel cylinders with the same amount of leg effort you are using now.

By the way, I just viewed your site and I'm very, very jealous.....

yeah i agree too. I am having my rod shop look into this saturday while I am there to fix my steering. I did talk to ECI people and they too asked me to measure pedal ratio and bore size. we will do this when the car is up on the rack.

PS: Jaleous, jaleous of what? The website? The roadster? Or my great legs ??

The first problem that I would address with your prakes is the path of the brake line to the rear. That is too close to the exhaust for me. You can easily boil the brake fluid and cause several brake problems.

Correcting this in itself may be enough to satisfy your braking needs. If not, then remove the master cylinder and find out what size piston is in there.

On another note, I have the same finned drums and have plenty of stopping power-on the original 4600 pound car.

With the healthy cam the engine is running she might not have enough vacumn for a booster.

If the brakes aren't working properly or adjusted and maintained properly, no booster regardless of the size will help..... Bad brakes are bad brakes....

Originally Posted by Dave Severson

If the brakes aren't working properly or adjusted and maintained properly, no booster regardless of the size will help..... Bad brakes are bad brakes....

Dave has hit the thing on the head. No, she doesn't need a booster, and no, she certainly doesn't need to throw out the whole system and go exotic. She needs someone who knows brakes to go through the entire system and fix and adjust what is there. If she has early Ford brakes on the front with Buick drums, and typical 8 or 9 inch Ford brakes on the rear (Haven't seen what's back there, so I am assuming) this car will stop just fine.

Are discs and SoCal stuff more modern? Sure. And the SoCal setup sort of gives you the look of the traditional Buick set up. But for us diehards who really want traditional, only one setup will do, and that is the setup she, and I are running. I am not defending this setup simply because I am running it, but because for years and years, day in and day out, I drove my '27 and the brakes could not have been better even if they were discs. The car stopped on the proverbial dime, with no pull or fade. Pedal pressure was perfect, and as for getting them wet, I live in Florida, where it rains just about every day in the Summer, and many times the rest of the year. I have driven through rainstorms where I could not see the car in front of me, and the brakes never diminished whatsoever.

The secret is in the setup and adjustment. Faith just needs some knowledgable rod builder or brake person to go through the car for her.

Don

PS: I have two other thoughts on this. Maybe Faith is comparing the feel of these brakes to her daily driver SUV that she mentioned she also owns, and secondly, maybe, being a female, and naturally a little weaker than males, the pedal is tougher for her to push. That isn't a chauvinistic comment, simply a fact of life. My ex-wife wanted to drive my '27 one time, and was mad because she couldn't push the clutch down. To me it was stiff, but very comfortable. Just a thought.

If you REALLY like the Buick finned drum look, $o-Cal has a look-alike with discs. I've seen several and the only thing that gives them away is a duct.

Here's the web site: http://www.est1946.com/index.asp?Pag...ROD&ProdID=957

Originally Posted by Irelands child

If you REALLY like the Buick finned drum look, $o-Cal has a look-alike with discs. I've seen several and the only thing that gives them away is a duct.

Here's the web site: http://www.est1946.com/index.asp?Pag...ROD&ProdID=957

yeah I have seen them on roadsters, but they do not look the same.

I want to try to see if I can make the best out of what I have as I am not really willing to resorting to going to disc. I really really do like my old wheels and drums. That is another reason why people around here are liking my car, it has a lot of older elements on it, a departure from the otherwise very billet, very modern looking california hiboys that dominate, in numbers, every car show I go to.

yes the car does brake, but it sure takes a lot of effort and some distance. In case of emergency I might be in deep doodoo ... hence my investigaitons to see if it can be improved somehow...