Thread: And more questions: Front suspension & clearance

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Originally Posted by techinspector1

Faith, in my opinion the first thing you should do is remove the Panhard bar

me no have panhard bar... And want to add one! Funny you should mention though because i just ordered one so my roadster will quit changing lanes every time I hit a hole in the road i think what you are seeing on the photo is the cross steering bar or whatever you call it... I have a half rack steering system (a newer invention that came out about a year ago).

Yeah, my mistake. I thought that was a Panhard bar rubbin' on the crank pulley. I think I'll stop postin' for a while. I'm gettin' stuff wrong lately.

Originally Posted by techinspector1

Yeah, my mistake. I thought that was a Panhard bar rubbin' on the crank pulley. I think I'll stop postin' for a while. I'm gettin' stuff wrong lately.

Hey, at least you didn't try to KILL people by giving them a heart attack, like me.


Don

Originally Posted by techinspector1

Yeah, my mistake. I thought that was a Panhard bar rubbin' on the crank pulley. I think I'll stop postin' for a while. I'm gettin' stuff wrong lately.

yeah, no I dont have one but will starting this saturday .... I still appreciate your input, so don't run away!!

Off to a new shop that specializes in frames, alignment and steering/suspension to pick their brains... we'll compare notes tomorrow -

before I go: I received photos showing my hiboy back in the 1980's. Same suspension, I recognize the shocks and shock mounts... Well, the car rode higher then, the leaf springs were more 'arched'... they seem to be more sagging (flat) now... Old age? When you look at these older photos you can see the same shocks had more travel (not so collapsed) then. Their angle was, however just as wrong as they are today - some things never change

Sounds to me like a new set of front leaf springs would be a good place to start and raising the front a hair and see how that changes everything else... baby steps, baby steps...

Originally Posted by SirSpeedy

I like low cars, and have driven hammered deuces a long, long way. You can go low, and still keep the ride.

Your shock angle is greater due to the axle you are running. It looks like a '32-36 axle, that has been dropped(quite nicely also). This axle has a wider perch centerline than any of the aftermarket axles, like the black one you have pictured. Making the shock more verticle will actually increase the damping(stiffer), so that is really not your issue at all.

how will a more vertical shock angle make the ride stiffer? I am unable to figure the logic in it, please explain... I like all your other suggestions, it seems there are common denominator to many of the posts here, so I have mapped a route i will take (see my next post)

After careful consideration, brain storming with you guys and 2 hot rod shops, I think I will go about my suspension the following way. if anyone see some flaws in my reasoning, please let me know before I get knee deep in thick doodoo

1- My front leaf spring are tired and flat. I believe they may be original 32s. they are riding metal to metal. Lots of noise and stiffness. I will replace them with P&J multi leaf with rubbers to improve both: 1- arch (hence gain a little height that way), 2- comfort 3- SILENCE I will save the old leaf spring, just in case I regret their departure.

2- While changing the front leaf I will move the shims to the top, thereby gaining a bit more height still.

3- I will see how all this adds up and how the roadster now rides. I will repaint my tie rod so I can see new scrapping marks, if any appear (aka: new incidents of pulley scrapping on the tie rod).

4- Assuming I don't, I will then look at my current front shock angle, amount of travel and performance. if either of these 3 are still not right, then:

5- I will get shorter lower shock mounts and if needed the 7 1/4 inch long P&J front shocks

Then I will test drive for a while to see how these changes are working out for me. If I still have scrapping problem, I might consider the bent tie rod first, before resorting to a "raising of the engine" and the domino effect of possible problems that might result from it.

6- I will then check my front stance and assess how high my Hiboy's butt needs to now go to attain proper "IN YOUR FACE, GET OUT OF MY FREAKING WAY" stance that I love oh sooo much .

7- I will then have to figure out rear tire size (I do want to go one size higher in the back) and new rear shocks (mine are leaking and also dead) and possibly new shock mounts that owuld offer more than one position to further play with height.

I think I have it in the proper order right? take care of the front first and then figure out where the rear should sit?

PS: I do want to go one size tire bigger in the rear, but not wider, I don't care for real wide tires on roadsters. At that point I'll have to make decision on which tires to run... ols school White walls? radials? radial with white walls?? But that's another story for another post later down the road...

That sounds in the right order, process of elimination, and go on to the next stage.

About the shock angle thing---this is a matter of triangular mathematics (shudder). When the shock is installed in a truly vertical position, then for every fraction of an inch that your axle moves up or down, the piston inside the shock absorber will move exactly the same amount. The shock absorber is a form of hydraulic cylinder. As the piston moves up and down in the shock tube, it moves the oil inside the shock back and forth through a "controlled orifice"---oil is what they call a "non-compressible medium" so the speed with which the piston moves is controlled by the viscosity of the oil and the size of the "controlled orifice". That action is what "inhibits" the bouncing action of the spring.----You knew that anyways, right!!!----Anyway, as I was saying, when the shock is vertical, the piston movement is at a 1:1 ratio with the axle movement, which is the "maximum effectiveness". When the shock is layed over at an angle, the ratio of movement between it and the axle begins to change, untill you reach a point where if the shock was laying horizontally, the axle would still move up and down, but the piston in the shock wouldn't travel at all, which would be zero effectiveness. So, what happens is that as the shock departs more and more from the vertical, the piston will move less and less, and the "shock effectiveness" will become less and less. Most people like to have the shock leaned in towards the center of the car at the top "a bit" because this acts to inhibit body roll. Hope this helps some.---Brian www.rupnowdesign.com

Faith: While you are buying a spring, buy a Posies Super Slide. They have telfon buttons between the leaves, and they slide on one another. Cost a little more, but ride so much better. Plus, they won't scrape the paint off of the leaves and subsequently rust.

Look in the speedway catalog. I have them on my '27, and after 17 years of sitting on it, the spring is like brand new.

Don

The black spring in the pic of the 31 above - Camaro discs etc. - is a Posie's Super Slide with the Teflon buttons Itoldyouso mentioned.


The black spring in the pic of the 32 above - Mustang discs, red calipers etc. - is a Durant Mono-Leaf.

The Posie's is as it always was.
The Mono-Leaf seems to be sagging a bit after maybe 9-10 years of use.

Just to add, with a multi leaf spring you will be able to soften up the movement by removing a leaf or 2 if necessary. It's a good idea to buy some 2" telfon liner to go between the leaves if you decide on a spring other than a posies.
Your 32 spring probably isn't original because if has reverse eyes and it looks too new.

Thanks for the explanation on that one Brian!

If you get a Posie spring, he has a new line called the "Hollywood Roll". This line of springs has the teflon buttons, but they are hidden further up in the leaves, and the ends of each leaf is tapered like a stock Ford spring. They look very period correct. If you are changing out your shocks, I'd put a pair of hooded shocks on that rig - Your early dropped axle, stock appearing front spring, and some hooded shocks will help sell that "early/traditional" appearance.

Wow SirSpeedy.........really pretty front end.


Faith: Also notice that even though he has a reversed eye spring like yours, that his spring has a lot more arch to it than yours. I think your spring is either flattening out, or someone did that to lower it more.


Don

Originally Posted by Itoldyouso

Faith: While you are buying a spring, buy a Posies Super Slide. They have telfon buttons between the leaves, and they slide on one another. Cost a little more, but ride so much better. Plus, they won't scrape the paint off of the leaves and subsequently rust.

Look in the speedway catalog. I have them on my '27, and after 17 years of sitting on it, the spring is like brand new.

Don

Yes that is what I was planning on ordering... I agree with you...

Originally Posted by SirSpeedy

Thanks for the explanation on that one Brian!

If you get a Posie spring, he has a new line called the "Hollywood Roll". This line of springs has the teflon buttons, but they are hidden further up in the leaves, and the ends of each leaf is tapered like a stock Ford spring.

Oooooo I likey ... I hate to say this but I no have speedway catalogue... Are they online too? website url por favor?

PS: AS far as the front shocks go, I have to do some homework to see which style would do best for my HIboy...

As always I am grateful for all the input, I would be lost (and car stupid?) without you guys ... Heck, even my hotrod shop specialist (who is good) didn't catch some of what you guys pointed out! GOOD JOB!!