Thread: Mr. Hiboy's brake system - PART 2

Tweet

OK, since I am for the moment putting the remote booster idea on hold UNTIL I figure out my entire current brake system and whether it is set-up right and performing to its full potential or not, I figure I would start a new thread, but this is really a continuation of the previous one. I am going to post the photos of the back plates today.

Quick recap:

FRONT WHEELS: I was told that my front wheels are original 1948 (i just found my notes on this).

REAR WHEELS: rear wheels (and probably drums) are chevy not sure the year, my rear end is S-10 chevy - if that helps?

MASTER CYLINDER: I JUST replaced the old one and we put a dual cylinder Ford Mustang 66-67 cylinder. Have no idea what the specs are as far as bore size, or which cylinder is the larger one... I assume my hot rod specialist did do it right, but one never knows...

BRAKE PADS: Front pads are brand new, changed by previous owner probably in Spring 2006. He also mentioned he changed the front wheel cylinders. Not sure how true that is and if true what he put in there. He reported that previously the car would not stop, but it stop OK after he made the few changes. I also know that the shoes were swapped, the long ones were previously in the front and shorter ones to the back. The buddy of his who did the work on the brakes thought they were backwards and flipped them around. Not sure which way they REALLY should be for that year/model?

BACKING PLATES:

Today I took a quick snap shot of my driver's side front backing plate - can you guys tell me what they are- what year? And then tell me if my shoes are now backwards?

NOTE: I thought when looking at my photo that I have one screw missing at the top (well, I already knew that i do - I meant my backing plate has one screw missing ) - So I went to look at the car again and see that it is the same way on both wheels, and there seems to not be any thread for a screw to fit in there... Maybe this is the way the wheels are designed? The hole is sealed and no threaded.

Here is the photo of the top of my new master Cylinder:



OK here go the photos of backing plates (from 2 different angles), I await your input:





PS: the brake line going to the wheel on the driver side is a bit twisted. Can this affect my braking system in any way? Here is another frontal shot showing this, just compare the left side and the right side, you'll see what I mean:

MASTER CYLINDER: I JUST replaced the old one and we put a dual cylinder Ford Mustang 66-67 cylinder. Have no idea what the specs are as far as bore size, or which cylinder is the larger one...

More than likely your Mustang M/C is 7/8".

I had one for installation on my 32, but changed to a Torino M/C (same bore size) due to the Mustang outlets point toward the driveshaft and the Torino outlets point toward the inner drivers side (US) frame rail.

If your brake lines are clear of other components when the suspension travels and the wheels turn, you shouldn't have a problem.

Faith: Nothing goes in that one hole. Your backing plates are '40--ish style. The minor adjustement bolts on bottom identify it as this series. Later ones (46-48 have no external adjustment on bottom, only top.


Don

the brake shoes ( brake pads in a drum type brake ) were backwards, the smaller shoe is the primary and always goes on the side pointing to the front of the vehicle.

You could be right, it's been 8 or 10 years since I did mine, and always got the two mixed up.

Don

On the original Ford brakes, the long shoe lining went to the front of the car. The shoes were both lined with the same material. Newer brakes have harder, smaller linings on the front shoes. So depending on the lining, yours may or may not be right.
They should be marked, P (primary) and S (secondary).

R Pope is correct. The longer shoe goes to the front on stock early Fords (39-42). These old Wagner-Lockheed brakes were non servo meaning that the front shoe did provided almost all the stopping power with the secondary short shoe doing very little.

The adjusting information is from an old issue of Street Rodder magazine and always worked for me when adjusting the brakes on my old 40 Merc.

This will be kind of long-winded, but is good information.

For major adjustments, back off the adjustment cam to bring the lining into contact with the drum until a slight drag is felt when turning the drum. Check lower scan for proper cam direction. Then rotate the forward shoe eccentric anchor pin until the brake drag is relieved. Check scanned pic for proper anchor direction. Keep repeating these steps in sequence until the brake drag CANNOT be relieved. The tighten the anchor lock nut. Relieve the brake drag at this point by backing off the cam adjustment. Once this is done correctly you probably will only have to do a minor adjustment to keep the brakes in proper adjustment.

For minor adjustments, spin the wheel while turning the adjusting cam in 5the proper direction (see Scanned photo) until a heavy drag is felt, then back cam off gradually until wheel spins freely.

Make sure you check the cams to be sure they haven't been damaged over the years.

Hope this helps,
Mick

The Ford drums are slotted so you can insert a .010" feeler gauge between the drum and shoe. With the Buick drums, you have to fake it. To set them by feel, turn both adjusters slowly until the same pressure is felt on both. Lock the bottom one there, and back the top one off just enough so the wheel turns free. From the look of the shoe on your other thread, the bottom adjusters were backed off some, causing only the top part of the shoe to contact the drum. Not real efficient, as you probably noticed.
Setting the brakes like I describe will cause a bit of premature wear on the bottom inch or so for a little while, until the shoes burn in, but the brakes will work as good as they can for all of that.

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU

I have printed out all your info and will digest it and assimilate it over the week-end. if there is a chance Sean and I (Jeff = Sean, his name is jeff, middle Sean, I call him both, sorry for confusion, just don't want you guys to think I have TWO boyfriends ) can try to adjust them ourselves, then I know I will get them perfect because I am anal retentive and very detail oriented and will not GIVE UP until it is set up best as it can. I doubt a regular mechanic will have that much patience .

And this way if I don't get it right the first time, i can always go back later and redo it, fine tuning some more. hehehehe...

[QUOTE=HiboyGal] Sean and I (Jeff = Sean, his name is jeff, middle Sean, I call him both, sorry for confusion, just don't want you guys to think I have TWO boyfriends


Oh sure Faith, we understand (wink wink wink) Sure, everybody has ONE boyfriend they call by TWO names.

Hey, we're all grown ups here, and this is the year 2006 (wink wink) As long as Jeff, Sean, understands this, who are we to judge?

(you little Rascal, you)


Don

Originally Posted by C9x

I had one for installation on my 32, but changed to a Torino M/C (same bore size) due to the Mustang outlets point toward the driveshaft and the Torino outlets point toward the inner drivers side (US) frame rail.

I also like to use a master cylinder that has the outlets going towards the frame rails. I always use a brake proportioning valve also. Even when the brakes are of the same design ( drum/drum - disc/disc ).
It make it a LOT easier to run the brake lines neatly and securely. On the frame rail keeps the heat away from the line and the line being securely attached to the frame rail greatly reduces the risk of a brake line leak or failure ...

In the photos, you scan also see the 2 lb. and 10 lb. residual valves required for a Disc/Drum combination supplied by a under the floor master cylinder.




Your frame does is not boxed ... is it ?
On your frame ... the outlet may actually work better on the side they are on ... due to the exhaust being where it is ... your master cylinder LOOKS a lot closer to the center of the 32 than most ...

Faith's M/C looks to be even with the rear of the trans . . . making the transverse location perhaps a moot point.
I'm guessing her brake pedal comes out in about the right place.

Mine is further forward with the front of the M/C about even with the middle of the T-400.

A little hard to tell in the pic, but it'll give you an idea.