Thread: ??? Weird....

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I am trying to find a logical explanation to this:

Since we worked on Hiboy, it is riding, suspension wise, better. I am not feeling the road like I used to. the CD player no longer skips each time I hit a hole. I am afraid to say this, cause it makes NO sense, but I think my Hiboy has become "comfortable" ...

the problem is I HAVE NO IDEA WHY. It's not like we did ANYTHING to the suspension or shocks. the ONLY thing that could come even close to the suspension would be that we changed the motor mounts... raised the engine by a 1/2 inch maybe? But what does any of this have to do with suspension??? the frame is not riding any higher than before....

Or could it be because Hiboy took the weight off his tired little feet for a few days (sitting on jacks) and maybe the front leaf or front shocks got a chance to stretch a bit? Sounds so far fetched, however it is the only explanation I can come up with so far...

Looking at my 2 front shocks, they appear to be less "pushed in" than before, as though the length between the 2 shock mounts has somehow increased...



Don't get me wrong I SURE AM NOT COMPLAINING!!! Still, I seek some answers... Anyone here have some so I can make sense of this?

PS I have been cruising the heck out of it today all day hehehehe... And after I takea little nap I am going to cruise some more and head out to Flames for Cruise night gathering.

raising the engine may have shifted some weight to the rear?????

You dampened engine vibration when you changed the mounts and even though 1/2" isn't much you could have relieved some drive line stress.

Your front spring might have been bound up a little too! Did you jack up the front and drop the susp a little when you did the motor?

Originally Posted by bigdude

Your front spring might have been bound up a little too! Did you jack up the front and drop the susp a little when you did the motor?

What do you mean, do you mean when we lifted up the front to put the jacks under the axle? WE did lift up the front 3 times (one time each day) and when we brought it back down at the end of the day the jack sometimes let the car down pretty fast, regardless of how careful I was twisting the handle to release pressure ad lower the jack... Maybe the shocks were bound and the being stretched out a little (while lifting the car) and also the car dropping down may have loosened it's internal mechanism? Although I can't imagine it being more effective than any of the pot holes I have driven through over the last 4 months ... But then again the whole front of the car while driving is never OFF the ground.. SO maybe?

Originally Posted by NTFDAY

You dampened engine vibration when you changed the mounts and even though 1/2" isn't much you could have relieved some drive line stress.

yes of course, the engine now is more cushioned, but when I say "comfortable" I am solely referrring to the way the car does not let me feel EVERY GOSH DARN BUMP, LUMP, LINE AND PEBBLE ON THE ROAD Not to mention HOLES

My CD player used to skip a lot while driving. In the past 2 days it has only skipped once. This in itself is a testimony that I am not LOSING IT since the CD player does, very obviously, feel the same way I do (so there, I have witness!!)

Originally Posted by HiboyGal

What do you mean, do you mean when we lifted up the front to put the jacks under the axle? WE did lift up the front 3 times (one time each day) and when we brought it back down at the end of the day the jack sometimes let the car down pretty fast, regardless of how careful I was twisting the handle to release pressure ad lower the jack... Maybe the shocks were bound and the being stretched out a little (while lifting the car) and also the car dropping down may have loosened it's internal mechanism? Although I can't imagine it being more effective than any of the pot holes I have driven through over the last 4 months ... But then again the whole front of the car while driving is never OFF the ground.. SO maybe?

there are no internal mechanisms in shocks really, there are 2 chambers and a certin amount of fluid, and the fluid squeezes thru a small hole from chamber to chamber. but the hyper extension of the shocks may have lubed the shock back up, and made them softer again. if you replace them with adjustable shocks, you can fine tune your ride.

The little bit of tie rod to harmonic dampener clearance you gained by raising the engine probably helped.

Any chance you changed the tire pressures?

A lot depends on the tires you're running.
The ride was much improved on my 32 by taking the original rear tires - BF Goodrich 31.50 x 15, a light truck radial tire, but at the time the only one available in that particular diameter, etc. - down to 16#.
These tires had 7 ply tread and 3 ply sidewall.
They were quite popular on highboy roadsters & coupes.

Front tire at the time was BFG 175/70R-14 and I ran it at 26# - 28#.

Nowadays the front tires are BFG 185/70R-14 and it runs at 30#.

Rear tires are 285/70R-15, which are the same size as the abovementioned 31.50 x 15's, diameter, tread width etc. and they run at 20#.
Tread plies on these tires are 3 on the tread and 1 on the sidewall.
Much flexier and much better ride.

Some guys argue the tire pressure deal and air up their large rear tires on similar cars to 35# and wonder why it rides so rough.

Just cuz it says max load @ 35# on the sidewall doesn't mean the pressure is correct for your car.

As a further point, my new at the time 88 Mustang GT had 35# in the tire from the dealer and the 2nd day I owned it I was wondering if I could make it with the rough ride and all.
Life was much improved when I found the recommended tire pressure sticker (30#) on the passenger side door frame.

If you're running bias-plies, you're on your own.
I don't have any recent experience with those.

Although, using the old rolling through water trick would probably show you if the bias plies were correctly inflated.

Originally Posted by C9x

If you're running bias-plies, you're on your own.
I don't have any recent experience with those.

Although, using the old rolling through water trick would probably show you if the bias plies were correctly inflated.

Above sounds intriguing... Me no know what it means... tell me more. What is the old "rolling through water" trick?

Down my list of things to do is to replace my current radial tires. Although I love the bias tires look, with super wide white walls, I have heard that they wander and can ride really rough, so I might stick with radials, but intend to possibly get white walls and go up one size in the rear (I currently have 175 and would like 185). I do not want wider tires, just a hair taller, so tire fils the wheel well up to the first curved line. When I get closer to this project I will pick your brains on height, as well as how it will affect my rpm, gas mileage and overall performance of roadster. Right now RPM running high so a hair taller tires shoudl drop it a bit down, which would probably be a good thing in my case.

But for now suffice to say that NO I did not touch the tires or tire pressure....

I thought that would fire up your curiosity.
Now you have to suffer through a short - relatively - tale about the good ol daze at San Fernando Dragstrip.

San Fernando Dragstrip was quite a place.
They ran the main show from 12 noon to 3 PM.
Stockers, Gassers, Altereds, Fuelers . . . everything that ran open headers.
It was the best show in town, heck in the whole darned valley and it was done in three hours flat.
Reason being, the noise from the fuel cars resonated through town and the churches weren't too happy with the minister's sermon being drowned out.

It was something else being downtown on a quiet Sunday and hearing the big cars run.
When it was a fuel car, there was no mistaking it.

Corked up cars, any class as long as it had mufflers and the cutouts or headers caps were closed could run from 0900 - 12 noon and after 3PM.
Most times, it didn't make much difference in the afternoon, but in the mornings you could get a good start on tuning - timing and tire pressures for the most part - by running through the muffs.

You never knew who you'd see there.
A lot of the early day big names like Ivo, Breedlove and the like as well as some very famous cars.
The Glass slipper for one and the majority of Tony Nancy's cars from both of the 22jr roadsters to his last fuel dragster.

Anyway, we learned to go to a quiet corner of the pits, namely the very way back in the back staging lanes and do burnouts.
Taking note of the coloration of the burnout marks - IE: light in the center, dark on the edges indicated low air pressure and the reverse told us air pressure was high.

An important thing cuz San Fernando could be well over a 100 degrees F. and down into the 40's.
Depending mostly on what time of the year you were there.
And considering the tires we ran - hard and narrow slicks - correct pressure was a big advantage over the guys who didn't know any better.

The burnout marks helped tune the chassis as well, because most of us in our running 1.0 to 1.5 seconds slower cars than the national record holding cars ran open diffs.
Mine being a 335" Olds Rocket powered 50 Ford coupe.

Once each individual tire had the right pressure, you could balance the tire mark shading from side to side by using the little twist-em in aluminum coil spring spacers and wedging the chassis by pushing a little weight onto the right rear.
Along with that many of us ran an additional leaf in the right rear so as to pre-load that side because torque would raise the right side tire and you'd lose traction there.

So fast forward about 30 years into the future and there I was with a lightweight Deuce highboy and a very torquey 462" Buick engine.
This time around, lack of traction with any tire - running the street - was a given.
The goal was to have a good ride without too much experimenting and I figured that rolling the car through very shallow, in fact, just a touch past damp on a cement driveway would indicate the correct pressure by leaving an equal water mark all the way across.
You have to make sure the tires at the other end of the car don't impinge on the end you're tuning, but the water trick works very well.

Just like the light and dark indicators left behind by the burnout at the strip, the damp tires printed a pattern on the cement that told you just where you were at.

Light in the center indicates low pressure.
Dark in the center indicates high pressure.
Equal all the way across the pattern indicates just right.
And . . . there's a little leeway, about 2# going either way depending on whether you're looking for a good ride or long tire life.

Regardless, if you don't spin the tires they last a long time on these lightweight little cars.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If you keep your eyes open and do a little research, you can find radials that are close to the bias look.
No one - at least those with a little experience - will be fooled when you're parked, but rolling along it will be hard to tell.

Look at the higher rated R numbers - R75, R80, R85 should do it.
R70's work if you're looking for a fat rear tire, but the R70's are a little too fat for the front end.

I'm waiting for the R70's on the front of my 32 to wear down and then I'll pop on a pair of R80's or so.

The pic of my 31 on 32 rails project - again with a 462" Buick, but a bigger cam, more compression and dual quads - shows fairly well the narrow radials.

Sizes are:

Front:
165R/80-15
4 ½" tread width
25" tall
5" x 15" wheel

Rear:
P235/75R-15
6" tread width
28" tall
6" x 15" wheel

Compare the front tire on the 31 with the fat ones on front of the 32 and you'll see what I mean.

I would imagine that it is possible that you changed the center of gravity of the engine when you raised it up and re-distributed the weight of the motor there-by shifting a little bit of the weight to the rear and removing some of the pressure from your front suspension. So, did the angle at which the motor is sitting seem to change a little as well? I would imagine that it did because you said that your shocks are no longer compressed as far.

Anyway, I'm glad to hear you got it done and are pleased with the results....minus the squeak. Who knows, maybe the squeak is a result of the shift in gravity as well?

Cheers,
Dutch

The CD skipping could have been the result of the tie rod whacking the damper, shocking the whole car. The ride quality,well, did you support the car under the axle, or the frame? If the weight was off the spring the bushings, spring leaves, etc., could have taken another "set" temporarily, sitting the car a bit higher. If the good ride goes away soon, you at least know what needs to be done to get it back. Did you move those spacers to the top of the spring? That would likely make all the difference needed.

Oh my whole front spring leaf is going to be replaced in a week. I bought a new one from Posie and they are prepping it for me as we speak. I got the hollywood roll, where the tefflon are hidden between the leafs, so you cannot really see them (no buttons). They look as close to "stock" except the ends are rounded. I will let Hollywood Hotrods (rod shop) change the spring for me, they will then place the shims at the top and experiment with height.

PS: I WANT TO MENTION THAT THE GUYS AT POSIE WERE AWESOME!! They went WELL ABOVE the call of duty to help me, advise me, guide me. The tech spent an entire hour on the phone with me, I emailed him all my photos of clearance problem, suspension, leaf spring I currently run, etc... And he really worked hard to help me solve my problems and insure that we select the right springs for me. I was VERY IMPRESSED by their service (and I can be hard to please).

In short HATS DOWN FOR POSIE. They get a 10 plus grade from me, when it comes to service. Once I get the spring I will let you know how product rated.