Thread: My next move with hiboy's metamorphosis

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Here are a couple more shots of the same size combo on my '27.


Don

Originally Posted by joeybsyc

Just about everything about street rodding is about "the look". If it wasn't, we'd just drive what everyone else drives. There's no question everything about modern cars is safer and more comfortable in just about every way... If thats what's most important to you, you should be driving a Camry. I'm all for safety in hotrods, I just don't understand where everyone got the idea that bias ply tires are so terrible and unsafe.

Joey, I probably built more cars last year then you have in your life. I think I know how to achieve "the look" without comprimise.... Where I got the idea that radia tires are so much better then bias is having driven cars in the 60's when bias tires were the norm and radials (as mentioned in another post) were junk. But hey, what would I know. As for the Camry comment, I'd like to have one!!! Economical car with a great ride.... Not to be confused with a hot rod, however.... I much prefer building something totally unique.

Originally Posted by Dave Severson

Yeah, I'm brand new to this Hot Rodding deal and don't know a thing!!!

No, not saying that Dave, but as Joey said, if we wanted to be "absolutely safe" we would only be driving cars with airbags, ABS, etc. Hot rods are always a compromise, and lets face it, a car with no hood or fenders is a little less than ideal safteywise, but we still do it.

There are bias plys on the 5 cars sitting in our shop right now, and I wouldn't see my Sons driving on them if I thought they were unsafe. Like I said, I drove my rod pretty much as my only car for 7 years, and we get some heavy rains and hot weather here in Florida. Never has the car not tracked straight as an arrow, even at 70-80 mph when things were wet. Yeah, leaving a traffic light it tended to want to go sideways, but that is more a factor of high hp and no weight in the rear.

In fact, I think radials would impart different handling characteristics to the cars, as these early Ford type suspensions were designed for bias ply tires.

But that is what makes horse races, I guess. We all have our opinions and likes and dislikes.

Don

As an aside, I was in the Marine industry for 18 years. Most boat trailers come with bias ply tires, and I asked a trailer manufacturer why that was one time. He said bias plys are recommended if you trailer your boat long distances because radials have more sidesway. He said use radials if you only go from your house to the launch ramp, and use bias plys if you go on long trips with it.


Don

I didn't mention unsafe. Merely pointed out the fact that radials are better. When running radials vs. bias, it also requires changes in the suspension setup, mostly shock valving and spring rates. I guess my concern is more for the performance and good handling then it is having the right look. I would rather go fast and handle like a slot car then sit in the parking lot and look good.....

As you said, that's what makes it different, and that's what makes it fun. I've had Hot Rods with bias tires and Hot Rods with radials. When both cars are set up properly and the suspension is dialed in correctly, IMO the radial tired car will outperform and outhandle the bias ply car....

Yeah, but bias plys make prettier smoke when you light them up.


Don

Originally Posted by Itoldyouso

Yeah, but bias plys make prettier smoke when you light them up.


Don

No way!!! You got to get a pair or three of the radials with the colored tread, then you can pick your tire smokin' burnout color!!!!

Don, those tires look perfect on that car....are they Coker Classics? Thats the only brand I have been able to find in the L78-15.. While they look good, I really like the "piecrust" edges of the bias ply firestones better, but it doesn't appear they make a tire as big as the L78-15. Btw, what width are your front wheels? Mine are 6", and I'm wondering if they're too wide for 560's. Oh and Dave, I'm not arguing or claiming to know more about anything than you or anyone else...I respect your opinion as well as the opinions of everyone else, regardless of how old or young they are, how many cars they've built, driven, or owned... I know I'm not alone with that thought either, as this always has seemed like a site where everyone's opinions are respected. Many people have strong opinions against original style bias-ply tires, and I am just speaking from personal experiences with musclecars when I say I've never had a problem with them. Maybe they DO suck on a 2500lb hotrod. I don't even know how my car handles with radials on it at this point, which is why I intend to put some break-in miles on it with the radials I have, before deciding to switch over to bias plys, admittedly done solely for the "look". Do you have any experience with modern reproduction bias plys as opposed to genuine original old-tech bias plys from 30+years ago? I've heard the way they are now made is vastly improved over the original technology, so maybe the repro ones I've used are better than the originals they are reproductions of? Just a thought...

-JB

Originally Posted by joeybsyc

Don, those tires look perfect on that car....are they Coker Classics? Thats the only brand I have been able to find in the L78-15.. While they look good, I really like the "piecrust" edges of the bias ply firestones better, but it doesn't appear they make a tire as big as the L78-15. Btw, what width are your front wheels? Mine are 6", and I'm wondering if they're too wide for 560's. Oh and Dave, I'm not arguing or claiming to know more about anything than you or anyone else...I respect your opinion as well as the opinions of everyone else, regardless of how old or young they are, how many cars they've built, driven, or owned... I know I'm not alone with that thought either, as this always has seemed like a site where everyone's opinions are respected. Many people have strong opinions against original style bias-ply tires, and I am just speaking from personal experiences with musclecars when I say I've never had a problem with them. Maybe they DO suck on a 2500lb hotrod. I don't even know how my car handles with radials on it at this point, which is why I intend to put some break-in miles on it with the radials I have, before deciding to switch over to bias plys, admittedly done solely for the "look". Do you have any experience with modern reproduction bias plys as opposed to genuine original old-tech bias plys from 30+years ago? I've heard the way they are now made is vastly improved over the original technology, so maybe the repro ones I've used are better than the originals they are reproductions of? Just a thought...

-JB

Yeah, put three sets on customer's stuff last year, two from Coker's, and another brand X set that were total junk!!!! The Coker's are a bit bettern then the bias tires we grew up with, or perhaps they seemed better because the suspension is so vastly improved....

Another option is to run somewhat narrow wheels and get a set of radials in the higher number section ratio sizes.

IE: 50, 60, 70, etc.

Although the sizes you want are in the 75 and 80 series.

The ones shown on my 31 on 32 rails project are:

Front:

165R/80-15

4 ½" tread width

25" tall

5" x 15" wheel



Rear:

P235/75R-15

6" tread width

28" tall

6" x 15" wheel


Like some of the bias-ply enthusiasts say, they're easily spotted as radials, but imo only when parked.
Most of us would be hard pressed to ID bias or radial when the car is rolling.

Even when the car is sitting, at a glance it has the right look, stance and tire size and I'm betting not many will notice or say anything.

And if they do, it's not gonna bother me one way or the other.

Not going to get into the bias vs radials argument, but just wanted to point out there are other options....

I've used Coker repro Firestone Wide Ovals from Coker, and Goodyear Polyglas repro's from Kelsey... both have seemed pretty good on the cars I put them on. I did have a 69 SS396 El Camino with repro firestone redlines that seemed to "sqirm" more than other bias plys I've used, but it still wasn't to the point of being "scary". I can already tell that just being IN a topless, fenderless highboy is a few steps closer to "scary" than driving a 1969 anything though, so I can sorta understand your thoughts on bias plys on a hotrod... Like I said, everything I have experience with putting bias plys on has been considerably larger and heavier than a highboy roadster. What suspension setup changes do you make when using bias plys instead of radials? Oh, and if I get you a new Camry, will you run bias ply wide whites on it as a compromise?

Originally Posted by Itoldyouso

As an aside, I was in the Marine industry for 18 years. Most boat trailers come with bias ply tires, and I asked a trailer manufacturer why that was one time. He said bias plys are recommended if you trailer your boat long distances because radials have more sidesway. He said use radials if you only go from your house to the launch ramp, and use bias plys if you go on long trips with it.


Don

Interesting.

My three year old 20' enclosed box trailer came with radials from the manufacturer.
They are genuine trailer tires.
Granted, dumb sounding statement, but the sidewalls are imprinted with "trailer" and they run at 50# pressure and are about 25" tall.

The trailer did well a couple of summers back . . . pulled it's gross weight of 7000# across the desert in August.
Ran 60-70 mph depending.
Ambient temps ran 100 - 109 degrees F.

Other than the desert winds there were no sway problems.

The only tire problem we had was hitting a sharp piece of steel on a pullout which caused the tire to blow.

I didn't know trailer bias-plies were still available.

Excuse my ignorance - but what is different about the 'look'.

Higher sidewalls?
Tread pattern?

Why hasn't someone made a bias looking radial?

Originally Posted by C9x

Interesting.

My three year old 20' enclosed box trailer came with radials from the manufacturer.
They are genuine trailer tires.

My 1995 Pace enclosed car trailer came with radials also.
Goodyear Marathons
especially designed for trailers with " trailer only " cast into the sidewall.



My 2004 Horton Hauler ( motorcyle ) enclosed trailer has the same tires.
I have a new V-nose Pace Aero - Sport car enclosed trailer on order ... and the Goodyear Marathons are standard on it also ( spec sheet ) .

I prefer radials on my 32's ... but the Faith wants to try bias plys ...

I agree with Dave. Bias ply tires do not handle well and I too have concerns about them in the rain. My personal experience is on a heavier car though. I guess I don't really understand the look deal though. To each his own.

You'll never know if you don't try them though. But I know I felt the difference starting with backing the Monte out of the parking space at Firestone back in 1977.

Regards, Kitz