Thread: Last trip to nats?

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I've said it before... We used to think that any custom car enthusiast was a "brother".

In the last 5 years, I have watched the car hobby fracture into a bunch of highly critical, and unfriendly groups. I never saw this in the past. Maybe it's partly because us older guys have all become experts, who obviously have the only correct opinion....or because young guys usually tend to rebel against anything "established"....or who knows why? All I know is that it is destructive to the hobby.

It seems like people today have to "catagorize" and pass judgement on everything. Where did all of the friendly and positive guys go?

Dave, I'm glad that at least one guy out there is a true "car lover". :-)

Originally Posted by HOTRODPAINT

I've said it before... We used to think that any custom car enthusiast was a "brother".

In the last 5 years, I have watched the car hobby fracture into a bunch of highly critical, and unfriendly groups. I never saw this in the past. Maybe it's partly because us older guys have all become experts, who obviously have the only correct opinion....or because young guys usually tend to rebel against anything "established"....or who knows why? All I know is that it is destructive to the hobby.

It seems like people today have to "catagorize" and pass judgement on everything. Where did all of the friendly and positive guys go?

Dave, I'm glad that at least one guy out there is a true "car lover". :-)

Hot rod -
I think this forum is a great place for one to appreciate all sorts of cars. I have to say I grew up more in the 70's(from a car standpoint) than the 60's or 50's so I was naturally attracted to what was being rodded while growing up. Though there were still some 57 chevy's and 32 coupes, mostly what came into the highschool autoshop, were late 60's muscle cars and 70's custom vans. Our senior year, they closed a neighboring highschool shop, and combined the program with our shop. It was interesting because our school was predominantly caucasion while the other school was mostly hispanic. For us it worked out well. At first we laughed at the low riders and they laughed at us. But very quickly we learned to respect eachother, and the hard work that went into all of our cars. So since then I've liked a range of cars. Also at that time my Dad worked for an Italian wine machinery company. He would go to italy twice a year, buy up 5 or 6 old Alphas and Lancia's, occasionaly something really cool like a citroen masserati or ferrari boxers, and bring them back to sell in the bay area. We loved it when we could drive them, but hated working on them, because of the tight spaces, and tempermental tuning!
I know in the past we posted cool rat rods(you can get into a fight just over the definition of these), lowriders, pre 48 rods, trucks, dragsters, and muscle cars, not to mention kit cars, which have a bad rap, as some are nothing short of genious! Matter of fact one of our sponsors Facory Five makes stuff that would knock your socks off, and compete on the local track!
So I guess like anything, there are those of us that appreciate everything, even though we have our likes and dislikes, and then there are those that have to have a true metal body duece coupe for it to be considered worthy of them. For me, if you build it, and post pictures, I'll be there to appreciate it!

We are truly "brothers"! :-) I graduated in '66....grew up on a diet of Chevies, Novas, Vettes, 409s, and such, but helped other guys build street rods, choppers, and drag cars. Once I started painting, and moved to Arizona, I worked at a copper mine, and many friends messed with lowriders. Of course I painted a few. That was 25 years ago, and since then I have done literally hundreds of bikes, hot rods, musclecars, drag boats, kit cars, dragsters, garden tractors, RC planes and boats, helmets, gas pumps, refridgerators, and virtually anything else that can be "hotrodded" or "customized". I gave up having my own toys, and started a full time collaboration with customers to improve their efforts. No regrets, except when I see people hurting the fellowship amongst the people who I share a passion with.

I am now 39 years old of been into cars my entire life, I had alway had 50's & 60's cars. I always went to the nats to look at all the great ALL hotrods, I love the fact, that it is a '48 & older show , I finally got enough expierence & time & money to build a really nice '39 chevy JUST so I could go & be in the nats!!!!! I think NSRA is making a huge mistake!!!!!! 2009 will be the last time I go or show (even though this will only be my 2 time showing there) at the NATS.!!! the NATS should be for pre-49 cars & trucks! second mistake is the cut off date....... it should only go up to 1972 as the latest year model at the other NSRA shows!!! that would give them another 20 plus years for more money. This change SHOULD have been put to a vote by ALL the NSRA members!!! not just few, only interested in making money!!! I mean, the name of the ass. has "street rod" in the name... Nothing from 1972 or later will EVER be a streetrod or hotrod or even a muscle car!!!! why do I want to go to the nats. to see a 1970's van, or some 80's truck all tilted up with the stereo blasting????? I am going to see if anyone has started a petition on facebook to get the NSRA to change nats date cutoff back!! If enough NSRA members want this changed WE ALL must fight this!!!! petition NSRA or pull your memebership until they change it!!!!! if enough of us quit or make noise they WILL listen, we just cant' complain on this board!!!

Well, a few corrections there hottrod57....Not all of us want to fight this, a Hot Rod is a Hot Rod regardless of year.

Nothing after '72 is a Hot Rod???? Might want to be careful who's standing around when you say that!!!! There's a whole fleet of blown big block 80's pick ups out there and I'm quite sure most of them would take exception to your definition!!!!

Hot Rod, by definition, is any car who's performance has been improved..... If that ends up being a '79 Monte Carlo with a raspy, bullet fast 383 stroker or an '83 Mustang with a 460 cube stroker Windsor, I'll betcha a bunch of money that either would run circles around the standard 'glass bodied '32-'34 "Ford" with the usual 350/350 combination!!!!

Yes, it is all about money.......Costs a fortune to put on one of these shows and costs a bunch to go there as a spectator, participant, or especially as a vendor. Money is what makes the world go round, not the snobbery of someone thinking that your car isn't old enough!!!!! How about all those 'glass bodies that were built last month??? Are they REALLY pre 49 cars??????

I'm sure there's hundred of petitions around now, doubt they will change anything!!!! Those of you who are so adamant that YOUR definition is the only one that counts are free to start your own organization and exclude anyone you want.....and good luck with anything resembling financial success or even break-even $$$$$ with such an organization.....

IMO SEMA puts on probably the most comprehensive show with the best selection of vendors and best location of all of them..... NSRA worked ok 20 years ago, but fortunately the folks who run the organization were smart enough to see the necessity of including all types of cars at their events to ensure their success and growth!!!!! Losing a few malcontents doesn't even come close to offsetting the number of new members they will gain!!!!!

If you want to see Hot Rodding continue to grow as a sport, hobby, business opportunity, or whatever else you may want to reconsider what the results of catering to the pre-48 only cars vs. bringing in a couple more generations of Hot Rodders and potential Hot Rodders with their version of a Hot Rod will bring to the world of Hot Rodding. Yeah, it is all about money........

Originally Posted by Dave Severson

Yes, it is all about money.......Costs a fortune to put on one of these shows and costs a bunch to go there as a spectator, participant, or especially as a vendor. Money is what makes the world go round, not the snobbery of someone thinking that your car isn't old enough!!!!! How about all those 'glass bodies that were built last month??? Are they REALLY pre 49 cars??????

Maybe it should be restricted ALL STEEL pre 49 cars......

why is it people are "snobs" ??, if they want a the NATS to be just for pre '49 cars? I intentionally joined this car club for this reason, when I said the 1970's & later cars not hotrods they are not!, just read nsra's own description of a hotrod, that is what I meant by that statement! I think it would fine to bump the cut-off dates up at other nsra shows, just not the nationals. For all the people who want cars shows, that are open to later model cars, there are plenty of car shows to go too.The NSRA needs drop street rod out of it's name.

There are a lot of cars after 72 that are hot rods. Read Hot Rodder. Look at some of the Pintos out there. VW Busses, Vettes, 442's, Caddies, Mustangs, Firebirds, Camaros. If we try to exclude someones else's hotrod from our definition, what happens, when say they exclude yours. Dave makes some great points, what about 2009 fiberglass pre war willys bodies, Hell what about 2009 steal 32 coupe bodies. Now lets look at the engines, is a new hopped up 4.6 lt for, chevy ls7 alowed into the club, or does it have to be a flatty! Is an aluminum radiator ok? Modern trannies? Where do you cut off the definition. Do we start submitting carbon dated steel samples from the body of our classic?
I do get that a lot of folks like pre 48 designs, and some are purists to the point of everything in their car is old, or, just the design is old. A lot of people think muscle cars ended in 1972, and everything ever made after that is junk.
My response is take a 2007 Mercury Marauder out for a spin!. Try driving a new vette. If GM makes the new Camero, dare yah to emasculate it!
I don't personaly care if I'm excluding from a show because my truck is a 48, and not a 47. I figure it's old enough for me. I also like alot of the early fifties stuff coming out, Mercs, Tudor Fords, that were rodded back in their day, and again now. If a 58 year old car is too new, What the heck? People work equally hard on new stuff as they do on kits, as they do on original pre 48's. Would you exclude a 32 with IFS?
Billet?
Where do you draw the line? Some of us appreciate everything in the spectrum, we wouldn't do it maybe, but we sure can appreciate another person's passion for their dream and skills.

I guess this isn't a street rod? Poor guy should of bought a 47!

Its not a "street rod"... Its a 50's custom.

I think hotrod57 means to say "street rod" where he is saying "hot rod". The NSRA is the National STREET ROD Association. By their own definition a street rod is a pre-49 modified vehicle. It says nothing about "hot rod".

Yes there are a lot of hot rods out there that are post '49...... they're just not street rods. He is also correct that the NSRA should change their name. In 2010 it will no longer be the NSRA. It will be the NBAA..... National Bring Anything Association.

Its fine for you non NSRA members to be supportive of the 30 year rule.... but there is no reason you have to berate those NSRA members who are against it. Join the NSRA first then your argument might hold some weight.

I've been an NSRA member for over 20 years and this will be my last trip to the Nats and I won't renew my membership. Why drive from Arizona to Kentucky to see the same cars I can see in my local KMart parking lot.

How about a new rule: The car can't be an older model than the owner, maybe that would give a different perspective

I have no room to talk and admire any well built car and those that craft them whether '32 or '62 or '82.

Clubs can make whatever rules they want... you don't like them, join another or start your own. The only club I am a member of is the NHRA.... in case you are wondering that is the National Hot Rod Association. Generally, I don't want to be a part of any club that would have me as a member

-Chris

Just got back from Super Chevy in Indianapolis. Nothing "super" about it; the whole thing got rained out and cancelled Saturday morning. We watched a little of the time trials Friday night but some guy blew his engine and got oil all over the track. Thay said it would be a while so we figured we'd come back Saturday morning and watch the racing all day but it never stopped raining so they called off the whole weekend. 4 1/2 hour drive for nothing.

(QUOTE)Its not a "street rod"... Its a 50's custom.

I think hotrod57 means to say "street rod" where he is saying "hot rod". The NSRA is the National STREET ROD Association. By their own definition a street rod is a pre-49 modified vehicle. It says nothing about "hot rod".(quote)



I also had a set of terms that had been defined for decades. As I have talked to younger guys on the net, I find that those terms are no longer "chiseled in stone".

They were things like:
Hot Rod = prewar (WW2), ...and street rod ...and muscle car ...and custom ...and others.

Today things are changing. Fiberglass bodies are now frowned on by many, though, as a 40+ year bodywork guy, I prefer them (on very practical grounds). Putting a Chevy engine in a non-Chevy is frowned on,though it was the first choice for thousands of builders for many decades (and for good reasons). We never had primer as a first choice for paint, but now young builders think we all did. We were thrilled to go to better tires, get rid of those shakey wire wheels, put a nice interior in the car, would rather stay home than put an inline engine in a hot rod, and a few dozen other changes in the hobby, but now I am finding that things are being redefined, and they don't care if us veterans approve or not.

My only response to this is, I just want people to continue to enjoy modifying cars their own way, like we did.

Besides that, I am learning that NOTHING... EVER... stays the same!

Originally Posted by Rufus

Its not a "street rod"... Its a 50's custom.

I think hotrod57 means to say "street rod" where he is saying "hot rod". The NSRA is the National STREET ROD Association. By their own definition a street rod is a pre-49 modified vehicle. It says nothing about "hot rod".

Yes there are a lot of hot rods out there that are post '49...... they're just not street rods. He is also correct that the NSRA should change their name. In 2010 it will no longer be the NSRA. It will be the NBAA..... National Bring Anything Association.

Its fine for you non NSRA members to be supportive of the 30 year rule.... but there is no reason you have to berate those NSRA members who are against it. Join the NSRA first then your argument might hold some weight.

I've been an NSRA member for over 20 years and this will be my last trip to the Nats and I won't renew my membership. Why drive from Arizona to Kentucky to see the same cars I can see in my local KMart parking lot.

I quit being a member of NSRA better then 20 years ago..... Got to be nothing but a cavalcade of 'glass cars with sbc's.... and the "snobbery" of all the different factions within NSRA at the time almost brought about it's demise!!!!

Personally I don't berate anybody who is in NSRA.....but it's an organization that is changing it's criteria in response to what is actually going on in the world of Hot Rodding!!!!! Without profitability in putting on these shows, there will be fewer of them.....Obviously the folks in charge have seen the need to adjust their criteria to maintain the caliber of the shows....and now a few malcontents seem to think they could run things better....Well, start your own organization and see how things go with pre-49 only, and as someone else mentioned, add a touch of reality and make it real steel pre-49 only!!!!!!! Face it guys, there is very little on any of these cars that is pre-49.....just the body style.....so what is the big deal with ruling out others who have equal or higher quality cars????

hmmmmm. Nobody wanted to address the issue of "pre-'49" being applied to a 2009 glass body on a 2009 frame with a 2009 drivetrain??????

Around here in the mid 80's, there was many who believed NSRA actually meant "national sissy rod association" cuz most of the cars had IFS instead of a straight axle, air conditioning, multi thousand dollar interiors, radial tires, tinted glass, and all that other "modern" stuff!!!!! and yes, I DROVE my STEEL BODIED '27 roadster with a straight axle in front and buggy spring rear with Lincoln flattie, Zephyr trans, and Franklin quickie to the Nats in Oklahoma City.... It would seem the more things change, the more they stay the same!!!!

Actually, now that NSRA has pulled their collective heads out of the sand and looked around to see there is a whole world of cars they have been excluding from their events, I might just send them my $$$$$ again....and put their little decal on the quarter window of my '83 Mustang!!!!!