Thread: Planning on Full Fendered Deuce later

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Originally Posted by rspears

One thing to consider is front hairpin or 4 link mounting. If you want fenders later you probably do not want the through-frame-mount, but instead would tab down below the frame.

So if I understand correctly, I need to mount the 4 link down low, right? Like this Deuce?

Originally Posted by florida

So if I understand correctly, I need to mount the 4 link down low, right? Like this Deuce?

I'm not sure that the Deuce pictured would fit fenders - I will defer to someone with more experience. As you look at the picture the upper mount is quite close to the reveal line, which I believe is the fender line? Hairpins mounted on a tab below the frame rail is probably safest, IMO.

Most of the front four link kits that are made Deuce specific will work on either a fendered or non-fendered car.... If in doubt, call the company that makes the 4 link kit before you buy one.....

Originally Posted by Dave Severson

Most of the front four link kits that are made Deuce specific will work on either a fendered or non-fendered car.... If in doubt, call the company that makes the 4 link kit before you buy one.....

See where the upper 4 bar is located on the frame rail ?

Then again here on my 32 chassis



Then again, my chassis with the fenders installed



The 4 bar set up from TCI ( and MOST of the others ) will clear front fenders ... installed in their original position.

In my opinion
the 4 bar setup is vastly better than a hairpin setup.

1 ) more ground clearance
2 ) the axle has less king pin caster change during axle movement UP/DOWN
3 ) better ride
4 ) easier to adjust caster

If you do not understand toe - in, caster and camber
Do yourself a favor and go here

http://www.ozebiz.com.au/racetech/theory/align.html

Originally Posted by rspears

I'm not sure that the Deuce pictured would fit fenders - I will defer to someone with more experience. As you look at the picture the upper mount is quite close to the reveal line, which I believe is the fender line? Hairpins mounted on a tab below the frame rail is probably safest, IMO.

Florida,
My use of the word "safest" above was related to your question of the flexibility to be able to run fenders later without having to make modifications, not to infer the safety of the system or to reopen the age old "discussion" on which is better, hairpins or four bar.

As for opinions, like belly buttons everyone has one, and people tend to look at their own as being best, which is perfectly OK. For me, the Grand Canyon is vast, and I don't see how a four bar can give more ground clearance than a hairpin. A picture is worth a thousand words, and Deuce has given you pictures of the fender line against a TCI four bar which answers your question about being able to run fenders later, whatever you choose to hook to your frame.

Now to the real question. Why would you want to run fenders on a hot rod???

Fenders? You don't need no stinkin' fenders! LOL!

Originally Posted by rspears

I don't see how a four bar can give more ground clearance than a hairpin.

A picture is worth a thousand words, and Deuce has given you pictures of the fender line against a TCI four bar which answers your question about being able to run fenders later, whatever you choose to hook to your frame.

Most hairpin set ups attach to a bracket that hangs lower than the one shown above. ( not my car ).
I believe the lowest part of the hairpin is lower than my low point 4 bar.

From a engineering stand point ... the 4 bar is superior ... because of the 4 moving points verus only three for the hairpin. The 4 bar is a parallelogram. Caster is more consistent.

I will agree that a hairpin setup LOOKS more old timey and traditional and can be SAFE.

Just my nickel's worth

Originally Posted by Deuce

From a engineering stand point ... the 4 bar is superior ... because of the 4 moving points verus only three for the hairpin. The 4 bar is a parallelogram. Caster is more consistent.

Can't disagree that the caster is more consistent, but I based my choice on my understanding of the history, which R&C compiled quite well some time back. http://www.rodandcustommagazine.com/...ils/index.html

As I understand it, the front links, panhard bar and steering link all form a system, and with a cross link steering box location the problems of bump steer are minimized. Given that a dropped axle front end only has maybe +3" of travel, and that the ideal caster is a range of 6-8 degrees for a road car, the change to caster is not as critical as it once was, especially if you are running radial tires. For me, the choice comes back to the look as much as the function, assuming that you have the steering question addressed. Mine's being assembled as a drilled I-beam, Vega style cross steering, and hairpins mounted through the frame rail, because that is the look that I like. I hope that I don't regret it.

I have owned cars with both 4-bars and hairpins and can't relly tell the difference in ride and handling between the two. I believe the small amount of caster change in an early ford front end is of little consequence.

I personally like the look of hairpins even on a full fendered car. My rpu sits pretty low and has long hairpins on a small tab under the frame and has been no problem with ground clearance.

I would go with your personal preference, 4-bar or hairpin.

Mick

Originally Posted by rspears

Mine's being assembled as a drilled I-beam, Vega style cross steering, and hairpins mounted through the frame rail, because that is the look that I like. I hope that I don't regret it.

That is the COOL thing about Hot Rodding ... rather than restoring

As long as it is safe ... there is no specific " correct " way.

I have owned 32 Fords since the 70's and the ones I had with a hairpin did not ride as well as my 4 bar equipped Deuces. If the frame mount for the end of the hairpin is on the lower part of the frame rails ... that is the better way for doing hair pins IMHO. But a LOT of hairpin setups use these aluminum brackets ( which are safe ) but ground clearance suffers.

I have never seen the aluminum brackets. Who made them?

Originally Posted by florida

I have never seen the aluminum brackets. Who made them?

Years ago
Every HOT ROD magazine had ads for them. They were made by PSI Industries I believe. Honest Charley's sold them by the hundreds.
( Honest Charleys was like Summit Racing and Jeg's are now .. Major mail order supplier ).

With the three bolt holes as a pattern, it made drilling a frame almost mistake proof and the brackets made installing front ends easier
for those who could not weld I bought and installed 3 or 4 sets ... 25 to 35 years ago.

There are always a few sets for sale on eBay ... NEW
____________________________________________





This was a typical 50's/60's 32 front end setup ( the 32's above )
Some used a stock wishbone and split it while the " MORE " $$$ crowd bought the hairpins. The really $$$ crowd bought CHROME hairpins.

Below is another very popular bracket ... back in the day ... same as the aluminum PSI in function, but easy to made at home ...
but they were available over the counter also. The metal ones ( non aluminum ones ) look even more traditional IMHO.

My 3 window is being built as if it would have been built back in 1964, with a lot of help and great advice from Deuce along the way. From the outside only parts that were available back then will be visible. Although 4 link was available 44 years ago most people were still using hairpins, as am I.

Mine are mounted about an inch up the frame rails which gives plenty of ground clearance as can be seen in these pics.







That's the only way to mount them as far as I'm concerned. There's no chance of a weld coming apart or metal fatigue causing a lower bracket to fail.

Last time i was at Vintage Speed in Vero Beach Charlie was repopping them.

Originally Posted by florida

I have never seen the aluminum brackets. Who made them?

Would you happen to have the Ebay link to them ???

Originally Posted by Deuce

Years ago
Every HOT ROD magazine had ads for them. They were made by PSI Industries I believe. Honest Charley's sold them by the hundreds.
( Honest Charleys was like Summit Racing and Jeg's are now .. Major mail order supplier ).

With the three bolt holes as a pattern, it made drilling a frame almost mistake proof and the brackets made installing front ends easier
for those who could not weld I bought and installed 3 or 4 sets ... 25 to 35 years ago.

There are always a few sets for sale on eBay ... NEW
____________________________________________





This was a typical 50's/60's 32 front end setup ( the 32's above )
Some used a stock wishbone and split it while the " MORE " $$$ crowd bought the hairpins. The really $$$ crowd bought CHROME hairpins.

Below is another very popular bracket ... back in the day ... same as the aluminum PSI in function, but easy to made at home ...
but they were available over the counter also. The metal ones ( non aluminum ones ) look even more traditional IMHO.