Thread: Best front disc brake setup

Tweet

Originally Posted by Louey

I don't understand why you would want to pay a gold price, when you can get good stock types, with easy to buy pads. Polish the castings, and clear coat them. Vette dual piston ones are nice. once you sleeve them.
If you only got 2,000 miles, I would be checking for heavy brake pad drag. Also, if you use the long fiber grease, and pull good maintenance, you probably will never see a bearing failure, for many many miles. Or am I missing something ?

Two words .. Unsprung Weight

On a light car, I like to have everything that is unsprung weight, as light as possible. I even have a aluminum 9 inch center section ( with a aluminum Daytona pinion support ) and a aluminum driveshft. The aluminum center section saves 22 pounds over a iron one. The aluminum driveshaft saved 10 pounds.



The photo shows a BLACK painted driveshaft ... but it has since been replaced with a aluminum one ...

I also like to use aluminum parts wherever possible. I have aluminum heads, aluminum water pump and aluminum intake on the SBC.



A small starter ... saves over 10 pounds ... ( but it is sprung weight ... like the engine stuff ).

I do use exclusively drum brakes on the cars I build, mainly because I like them...........oh, here goes that word again.........traditional. But, there is a reason most if not all newer cars come with front discs (at least). They stop better. My drums work fine because I use all new parts and keep them adjusted, but I have to admit when they get wet they aren't as effective as they should be. Even after washing the car the first few stops are dicey.

For the kinds of cars I build for me discs just look too modern IMO. I also don't like disc brake dust.

Don

Originally Posted by Itoldyouso

The reason that sometimes disc brakes from a larger American car aren't ok is weight and rotating mass. Those brakes are designed for a 3-4,000 pound car and weigh probably twice as much as an aftermarket set like Wilwoods. Not so critical on the original car but on a rod that weighs a lot less and probably has a beam type axle setup heavier brakes can cause some ill handling issues.......like deathwobble.

We were told by Mickey from Total Performance that we were not going to like the GTO disc brakes we installed on my Kids T bucket, but we had them and they were chromed () so we used them. He was right, the car handled very badly and after switching to Wilwoods it was so much better.

Stock brakes aren't very pretty either IMO, especially in a fenderless car.


Don

Don, I thought you had the Death Wobble because these reasons?

We also rushed building the car for Daytona Turkey Run, and built it in 88 days, start to finish, so we missed some things in our rush. As soon as the car hit the street we had handling issues. I have built a few cars and they always ran right down the road right out of the chute, so this one really puzzled me. The worst problem was death wobble that was very violent and you never knew when it would happen. You had to hit the brakes hard to get it to stop and it would scare the bejesus out of you.

So we pulled the car off the street for a complete suspension and brake redo. I found the wheelbase was off 9/16 of an inch side to side, so we realigned that. Our Flaming River steering box had too much play, which we adjusted out. Our caster was way too much at 9 degrees, so I took it back to 6. Toe in was off, it was 3/16 instead of 1/16 to 1/8. One brand new wheel was bent out of the box. Coker sent us a new one and we painted it today and will install it this week. We had all the wheels spun balanced on a very sophisticated machine.

We also found our spindles had been machined badly and the outer wheel bearing had 5-6 thousandths slop, so we pulled those and bought new forged ones from Speedway. While we were at it, we scrapped the GM brakes and have ordered a new Wilwood setup from Speedway too.

Bottom line, everybody seems to agree that for some reason the GM brakes are too heavy or something to make them work well at speed. I see lots of buckets with them, so some must work, but there are many people who don't care for them. We just couldn't take a chance and decided to go with the lighter Wilwoods. We should know this week how all of this worked out when we test drive the car again.

Don

Freds thinking was precisely our thinking in not putting the GM brakes back on. For $ 700 the Wilwoods cost it wasn't worth going through installing the GM's back on the new spindles and wondering if and when the problem would reoccur. I wish the GM's would have worked as they are all plated and painted up, but my Son's life comes first, and I don't want him driving a car that might get him hurt.

Don




There are many different kinds of light weight calipers & rotors out there and cheaper to buy. Who ever said anything about "larger American" cars???
I am using disc's & rotors from a '91 Nissan 300ZX on all 4 wheels on our "T" (With the name removed) They are light weight calipers, & rotors as many factory cars have. New calipers only cost $70.00 with pads, (rebuilt are about $36.00-$40.00) and rotors were $25.00 and I can get parts any where, they are a shelf item. And they fit most aftermarket mounting plates for 4 puck fixed calipers.
I have used VW calipers, and they also were light weight.

People just need to go and look some where other than in catologs, or just because someone else says that is what you need to use, odds are, they are only using it because someone said it was the only thing to use!

There are many small cars that can stop on a dime and give you change, and that are shelf stocked parts for less $$$$

As far as Unsprung Weight Thats great if you want to save weight, but from the looks of what you used, it didn't look like the parts you changed were for the weight, or are you saying that everyone else out there is having unsprung weight problems? I would rather have the IRON pumpkin, and I'm using two marine electronic water pumps which weighs less, but I not using them because of that.

Pat

Yep, those were some of the causes, but even after correcting all that stuff the wobble would still occur occasionally. We pulled the brakes and put Wilwoods on there and it hasn't happened since.

We did have another problem where the brakes were dragging and creating a lot of dust. Speedway graciously sent him a new set of rotors, different pads (purple) and a proportioning valve. We haven't had a chance to dial in the new stuff because he got sidetracked on his boat project the last year.

Don

I have the So-Cal set-up on mine. It's been there for 10 years & just recently changed pads, bearings & turned rotors.
As for price, it only hurts for a little while.

[QUOTE=Steves32;377483]I have the So-Cal set-up on mine. It's been there for 10 years & just recently changed pads, bearings & turned rotors.
As for price, it only hurts for a little while.



Steve - aren't there Wilwood discs inside all that aluminum

I considered that setup before I ended up going full fendered w/IFS and decided it was a waste to hide all that pretty sparkly stuff (but ended up with a full TCI Stage 3 regardless)

Yea- Wilwood 4 piston calipers hidden in there. Probably overkill on this little car.
I was just noticing that pic. Tires are spaced out a whole bunch. I had a tire shop break down the tires & rims for polishing & for some odd reason- they installed 1/2" spacers between wheel & drum. Idiots. I think I drove around for a year before I found out.

Originally Posted by Steves32

Yea- Wilwood 4 piston calipers hidden in there. Probably overkill on this little car.
I was just noticing that pic. Tires are spaced out a whole bunch. I had a tire shop break down the tires & rims for polishing & for some odd reason- they installed 1/2" spacers between wheel & drum. Idiots. I think I drove around for a year before I found out.

....but they do stop it tho. Now, if you want overkill go back to #5 entry - and this is the brake setup on my '31 I have them on all FOUR corners.

Steve, I'm just finishing up my 3-window, and I had to use 1/4" spacers between my early Eric Vaughn wheels and the So-Cal drums because the glue on wheel weights inside the wheels hit the finned drums. Perhaps your tire store was concerned about that if they used the glue on weights.

I hope my coupe turns out half as nice as your roadster!

Mick

You have to use lead weights. The new steel ones are twice the size as the lead.
Damn nice 3 window there!

Baer has come out with a 2 piston Corvette setup for the early front spindles that looks really good and stops even better. I'm using them with 11 x 2 rear drums.

Originally Posted by Itoldyouso

I do use exclusively drum brakes on the cars I build, mainly because I like them...........oh, here goes that word again.........traditional. But, there is a reason most if not all newer cars come with front discs (at least). They stop better. My drums work fine because I use all new parts and keep them adjusted, but I have to admit when they get wet they aren't as effective as they should be. Even after washing the car the first few stops are dicey.

For the kinds of cars I build for me discs just look too modern IMO. I also don't like disc brake dust.

Don

hey don!! i was thinking of switching to drums on the front,what set up do you like the most? pete

I think it depends on the car. Full fendered car- whatever fits.
Mine? Everything shows so I only had one option I would even consider.
The So-Cal setup. Great looks & Wilwoods, all hidden from prying eyes.

Driveway makes car look crooked. It's not.
Wow, old photo, no repaint or flames here. Just pinstriping.