Thread: 50 fastest musclecars

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ok this is what i got.

"My 69 SC/rambler ran a 13,73@105 bone stock other than a 625 competition AFB. the 105 was top speed with a stock cam-would not run past 5k rpm"


"As reported in Car Craft June, 69'- As delivered by Hurst,the engine was blueprinted and equipped with a Isky 550 flat tappet cam,12:4:1 pistons,Edelbrock r4b maniflod and single Holley R-3916 three barrel carb,Mallory distributor and specially ported heads(By Hurst). After curing lower end lubrication problems,the crew was able to get baselineHP figures.In twelve subsequet tests the power was gradually boosted by another 28HP.The final configuration included a Crane R274/393 roller tappet cam,Crane Modified heads,Edelbrock STR-11 "street tunnel ram" manifold,dual Holley 4210(615cfm 4-v carbs),Doug Thorley headers with collectors.
The engine was freshened up and dropped into the first prototype chassis for testing at nearby Miami Dragway. The car which had been prepared at the Hurst facilities in Warren,Mich. was equipped with a 4:44:1 rearend and a 2:65 low close ratio t-10 4 speed .The latter posed a slight traction handicap but even so,ten of the AMX's first runs were over 122 and eight runs were in the elevens.(Exact e.t. figures -as those for HP - are classified information).
The results of a a final series of test on the proto type mid eleven second @ 125MPH Hurst Super Stock/G.
The sticker price was $5994 for an SS/AMX. "

Anybody know any times on any YENKO cars?

The Yenko Camaro in the Pure Stock Muscle Car Shoot out was running mid 12's. That's through the mufflers on street tires. That was the one featured against the R-3 Supercharged Studebaker, which ran 12.80s by the way.

Pat

Wow! What a bunch of snobbery. No muscle cars cars after 1971? Says who? Why is a Camaro built before '71 included, but a faster model built in '02 not a muscle car? A '73 or '74 Firebird Tran Am with 455 SD isn't a muscle car?

A Viper isn't a muscle car but a Cobra and Corvette are? Maybe some of those on this board might want to line the pockets of a few Viper owners by telling them this, and then challenging them to race.

Were is the Studebaker Avanti with the R3? Because it was built in '63 and '64, it's not a muscle car? Or is it the fiberglass body?

Why are two older Mustangs listed, but the newer 390 HP Mustang Cobra not when it could clearly clean the clock of the older cars?

Do you really think the Mid '80's Grand Nationals are not Muscle Cars? How about the 300 HP GNX?

I was always under the impression that a muscle car was power-to-weight. A big engine in a smaller car. Isn't that the premise of the original GTO (by the way, the '05 GTO has more horsepower and the fastest 1/4 time of any GTO built in the '60's or '70's). You may or may not like the styling of todays cars, but they ARE faster. How many of the CLASSIC muscle cars could run 11's or 12's without major engine work? Newer Camaro's, Firebird's, Mustang's, and Corvette's can do this with bolt-on modifications. The Viper and Ford GT do this off the showroom floor.

And this doesn't even touch on trucks. Dodge built 50+ D100's in '64 with 426 (365HP) Max Wedge engines. While not fast enough to be in the Top 50 of 1/4 mile times, is it slow? Would you object to having one? Newer ones like the Lightninig and SRT/10 have 390 and 500 HP respectively. Would you challenge one of these trucks at a stop light in a stock 396 Chevelle SS?

And last, newer cars are rated net horsepower, not gross. While many cars in the '60's were underrated with HP numbers, newer cars use the more accurate net figuires. How much HP net was a 375 HP Camaro? Most likely less than a 320 NET HP '02 Camaro SS.

I think you guys need to quit with the '60's glory fantasy about how fast those cars were. Most cars given to the magazines were rigged for good PR. I noticed the infamous Catalina 2+2 that ran a 13.76 was left off that list. How much horsepower do you think it would have taken to push that barge? Do you really think a stock 421 tri-power could push that pig that fast?

You may not like newer cars, but the fact is they ARE fast. And they are getting fast. Mother Mopar is bring out a 6.1L Hemi with 425 HP (and no supercharger). Ford's '07 Mustang Cobra will have over 400 HP and the new Z07 Corvette with the new LS7 will have close to 500HP. All I can say is if you don't consider these examples to be muscle cars, start coming up with your excuse why you had your doors blown off (and it may not be Ryan Newman behind the wheel).

Amen, Swifster. You brought up all very good points. Alot of us ol geezer's have not kept up with the present vehicles (meaning they haven't followed them in the magazines) to know what's out there. I am very aware. I've owned three Mustang GT's in the 80's and They were pretty quick on their own, not saying that they were the fastest. JMO.

Originally posted by Swifster
Wow! What a bunch of snobbery. No muscle cars cars after 1971? Says who? Why is a Camaro built before '71 included, but a faster model built in '02 not a muscle car? A '73 or '74 Firebird Tran Am with 455 SD isn't a muscle car?

A Viper isn't a muscle car but a Cobra and Corvette are? Maybe some of those on this board might want to line the pockets of a few Viper owners by telling them this, and then challenging them to race.

Were is the Studebaker Avanti with the R3? Because it was built in '63 and '64, it's not a muscle car? Or is it the fiberglass body?

Why are two older Mustangs listed, but the newer 390 HP Mustang Cobra not when it could clearly clean the clock of the older cars?

Do you really think the Mid '80's Grand Nationals are not Muscle Cars? How about the 300 HP GNX?

I was always under the impression that a muscle car was power-to-weight. A big engine in a smaller car. Isn't that the premise of the original GTO (by the way, the '05 GTO has more horsepower and the fastest 1/4 time of any GTO built in the '60's or '70's). You may or may not like the styling of todays cars, but they ARE faster. How many of the CLASSIC muscle cars could run 11's or 12's without major engine work? Newer Camaro's, Firebird's, Mustang's, and Corvette's can do this with bolt-on modifications. The Viper and Ford GT do this off the showroom floor.

And this doesn't even touch on trucks. Dodge built 50+ D100's in '64 with 426 (365HP) Max Wedge engines. While not fast enough to be in the Top 50 of 1/4 mile times, is it slow? Would you object to having one? Newer ones like the Lightninig and SRT/10 have 390 and 500 HP respectively. Would you challenge one of these trucks at a stop light in a stock 396 Chevelle SS?

And last, newer cars are rated net horsepower, not gross. While many cars in the '60's were underrated with HP numbers, newer cars use the more accurate net figuires. How much HP net was a 375 HP Camaro? Most likely less than a 320 NET HP '02 Camaro SS.

I think you guys need to quit with the '60's glory fantasy about how fast those cars were. Most cars given to the magazines were rigged for good PR. I noticed the infamous Catalina 2+2 that ran a 13.76 was left off that list. How much horsepower do you think it would have taken to push that barge? Do you really think a stock 421 tri-power could push that pig that fast?

You may not like newer cars, but the fact is they ARE fast. And they are getting fast. Mother Mopar is bring out a 6.1L Hemi with 425 HP (and no supercharger). Ford's '07 Mustang Cobra will have over 400 HP and the new Z07 Corvette with the new LS7 will have close to 500HP. All I can say is if you don't consider these examples to be muscle cars, start coming up with your excuse why you had your doors blown off (and it may not be Ryan Newman behind the wheel).

The true muscle cars died in 1972 when smog laws caused comp ratios went down the tube, a few of the cars like the Pontiac 455 HD T/A ( you mentioned ) survived they are the true last muscle car and some people said the Buick GN's are but, are ither of them really? Most people ( Myself included ) belive that a true muscle car is the Factory tire screamers of the '60's, there were muscle cars b4 that as streets said but, it was b4 the big 3 made the term " Muscle Car " around '64 or so. The true muscle cars may not be as fast but, they are a legend. I admit newer cars are faster but they are in no way a muscle car. These cars, for there time were fast.

Here Viper Viper Viper

The "Big Three" didn't make the term Muscle Car. That was applied to the cars they made by the media in car magazines. Matt, your belief that the name was put on by detroit is dead wrong.

Originally posted by Matt167
The true muscle cars died in 1972 when smog laws caused comp ratios went down the tube, a few of the cars like the Pontiac 455 HD T/A ( you mentioned ) survived they are the true last muscle car and some people said the Buick GN's are but, are ither of them really? Most people ( Myself included ) belive that a true muscle car is the Factory tire screamers of the '60's, there were muscle cars b4 that as streets said but, it was b4 the big 3 made the term " Muscle Car " around '64 or so. The true muscle cars may not be as fast but, they are a legend. I admit newer cars are faster but they are in no way a muscle car. These cars, for there time were fast.

What?

If these cars from the '60's were legends then , no one would have sold them. They were no more than nice cars. Just like the new cars.

Again, show me the difference between;

1969 Camaro SS 14.23@97.28 396 375 HP 4-Spd 3.73
2002 Camaro SS 13.50@108 346 LS1 325 HP 6-Spd 3.42

1969 Ford Mustang Boss 13.34@107 429 375 HP 4-Spd 3.91
2004 Ford Mustang Cobra 13.30@108 280 390 HP 6-Spd 3.55

1967 Pontiac GTO 13.90@102 400RA 360 HP Auto 4.33
2005 Pontiac GTO 13.10@??? 364 LS2 400 HP Auto 3.46

I won't even bother with the new Corvettes (including the new Z07, the Z06, or ZR1) and how much they'd run circles around the C2 and the C3 cars of the time. Are the new Corvette's lesser cars than the older ones.

Sorry Matt, stop drinking the old guys Kool Aid. The old guys talk about the good old days. Matt wake up. As far as performance cars go, these are the good old days!

Originally posted by viking
Here Viper Viper Viper

ME LIKE EM...........

Originally posted by Oldf100fordman
ME LIKE EM...........

Originally posted by viking
Here Viper Viper Viper

Some how I don't recall Shelby bragging about the big huffers as an option!

Dodge Viper Twin Turbo system by West Coast Viper (and remember, if you can afford the Viper, you could probably afford the engine ) And you can close the hood and not have your vision obscured.

Two ITS T03/T04 Dual-Ceramic Ball Bearing Turbos rated @ 550HP each

(Turbos are cooled by engine coolant – lubricated with engine oil)

Adjustable from 7-15 PSI - inlet temperature only 50 over ambient

Two HKS Sequential blow off valves (adjustable rate and tension)

Two Turbonetics wastegates w/multiple spring sets and boost adjust ports

Two mid pipe connectors (adapts to factory tubular headers)

Two custom side sill pipes with resonators and cat delete

SplitSec FTC-02 (fuel & timing computer w/laptop interface) & Harness’s

MSD Viper Boost Retard box w/ in car dial (adjust on the fly for bad gas, weather)

In tank 255lph upgraded feeder pump

Barry Grant King Sumo 2000HP Fuel pump

CPR billet Regulator w/return and 1:1 boost reference

10 (ten) CPR 42 pound high rate fuel-injectors

Two custom billet fuel rails

Two 02 eliminators (replaces factory 02 sensors in rear bank)

Custom front mount intercooler w/top balance tank (81” Charge Area)

Two K&N Conical Air filters with a mod plate for aid in airflow

Two Custom oil pans for Turbos w/oil plumbing lines and internal baffles

Two electric oil pumps for Turbos w/lines for oil return and wiring/relay package

Modified passenger side valve cover for oil return lines

Fuel tank pickup modifications and return line outlets

Full braided fuel system lines with A/N fittings throughout

Complete plumbing for vacuum / boost regulation w/manual boost controller

Complete stainless steel piping for fresh and pressurized air

Autometer boost gauge with column mount

Autometer fuel pressure gauge with cowling mount

Flowmaster dual chamber mufflers in factory position

All other braided lines, couplings, harness & relay sets, etc. included

FTC Tuning software (R4 controller)

GEN2 forged motor will make 700WHP on 91 octane fuel.

1 year unlimited mileage warranty.



Regular price: $29,995.00Sale price: $25,000.00

Ya sound like a viper salesman

I'm really not much for bench racing but if ya start with the posted times (less than 2 tenths difference) then take in to count the induction systems of the two, the cobra should be the quickest, ie put a carb on the viper or a digital computer controlled injector system on the cobra and I'm sure the times would change.

My 427 cobra (shell valley car) will run low 11's on street tires or high 10's with slicks, of course the nash 5 speed, msd ignition, performer intake and demon carb help out, and the T bucket ran a best of 9.42 @ 140, so I (and a few others on this board) have no fear of stock GTS Vipers

There are also Vipers running in the 9's as well. I have a healthy respect for older cars, but not giving credit to newer cars can be detrimental to your won-loss record. With stock block Camaros and Mustangs running in the mid 8's, like any car, it's how much you put into it

As for stock, isn't it a kit car without a Shelby VIN tag (j/k). If that car was aluminum, it wouldn't have a huffer, it'd be on Barrett-Jackson.

While I agree that modern high performance cars are worthy of respect, I also consider that they have 40 years, Yes F O R T Y, nearly half a century, of technological development to benefit from and they are now catching up with what the "muscle cars" of the 60s and 70s were running. Give those antiques the benefit of modern tires, 5 and 6 speed trannies and modern components and they definitely still hold their own.

****************
1969 Camaro SS 14.23@97.28 396 375 HP 4-Spd 3.73
2002 Camaro SS 13.50@108 346 LS1 325 HP 6-Spd 3.42

1969 Ford Mustang Boss 13.34@107 429 375 HP 4-Spd 3.91
2004 Ford Mustang Cobra 13.30@108 280 390 HP 6-Spd 3.55
****************

Put a set of slicks on these guys, old and new, and then put your money up.

I agree that we need to include the modern cars, and the young, or older, people who run and modify them. We are all hot rodders. But in my mind the newer cars just don't compare to the raw, living on the edge feeling that the original muscle cars had. They were and are a culture that embraced several generations. The newer cars have not achieved that. Maybe they will eventually.

Pat