Thread: 50 fastest musclecars

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Originally posted by riverhorse59
Do I detect buyers Remorse?

you ought to know that when you see it "buyers Remorse". no i dont wont all my money back just most of it.

Originally posted by riverhorse59
LT1S10, If you remember, You told me You knew what I had I the engine and the 6-speed. I never gave You a price, You made the offer. I excepted. Are you having 2nd. thoughts?

yes, i found one a lot cheaper about 6 mo. later.

Geez, I go away sick for a few days and this is what I come back too!? OK, this is it, the end all, final straw.Modern cars are getting 300HP now. Good, yay, la-de-freakin-da. However, if the same technology had been applied back in the 70s to non-smog law cars we would have had 600 and 800HP from those blocks. Twin turbo vipers and modern vetts arent on the list cause someone trying to pay for a family while working couldnt have bought one. I personally am a big fan of the Hennesey Viper 800, but im not going to add it to the list. The new GTOs and STOCK Mustangs, maybe. But I need good arguments from the people supporting it, not rants. Either that, or I'll just make a "Fastest American Cars" list. Actually, that has potential. I'll start that thread now

Originally posted by drg84
Geez, I go away sick for a few days and this is what I come back too!? OK, this is it, the end all, final straw.Modern cars are getting 300HP now. Good, yay, la-de-freakin-da. However, if the same technology had been applied back in the 70s to non-smog law cars we would have had 600 and 800HP from those blocks. Twin turbo vipers and modern vetts arent on the list cause someone trying to pay for a family while working couldnt have bought one. I personally am a big fan of the Hennesey Viper 800, but im not going to add it to the list. The new GTOs and STOCK Mustangs, maybe. But I need good arguments from the people supporting it, not rants. Either that, or I'll just make a "Fastest American Cars" list. Actually, that has potential. I'll start that thread now

Don't sweat the petty things (and don't pet the sweaty things) after all, "When the green light drops, the bullsh!t stops"

And I did'nt even mention that 8sec Bucket

hey denny I like coolaid too

Originally posted by drg84
Geez, I go away sick for a few days and this is what I come back too!? OK, this is it, the end all, final straw.Modern cars are getting 300HP now. Good, yay, la-de-freakin-da. However, if the same technology had been applied back in the 70s to non-smog law cars we would have had 600 and 800HP from those blocks. Twin turbo vipers and modern vetts arent on the list cause someone trying to pay for a family while working couldnt have bought one. I personally am a big fan of the Hennesey Viper 800, but im not going to add it to the list. The new GTOs and STOCK Mustangs, maybe. But I need good arguments from the people supporting it, not rants. Either that, or I'll just make a "Fastest American Cars" list. Actually, that has potential. I'll start that thread now

Ah, the Kool Aid drinking, remember the good old days, crew has arrived. While I'd admit that an ignition failure in a newer car such as Denny is suggesting would require a tow truck, how often would this occur? The only fuel system/ignition system problem I've had in the last 15 years that required a tow truck was a bad electric fuel pump in a Corsica with 127,000 miles on it.

David, I wasn't including Hennesey Vipers anymore than I'd include Fiberglass Cobras with tubs and blowers. That twin turbo Viper was brought up in that context. As for the cost of the new Viper, do you think original Cobras and Corvettes were cheap? A 20 year old would no more be driving a new 'Vette in '65 than a 20 year old would be driving a new 'Vette or Viper now.

As for horsepower figuires, you should recheck how horsepower was figuired then and now. 375 gross horsepower then is 280 horsepower now. This is why a stock Camaro Z-28 SS could clean up against '68 Dodge Charger with a 440 even though it weighs 100-200 pounds more. Taking expensive 'exotic' stuff off your list, how many cars top the 2005 GTO? If you want to be seduced by LS6 Chevelles, remember that the current LS6 has equal net horsepower.

And as you are talking stock horsepower, your argument that new technology on old powerplants makes old cars better, well that's nice in theory. The fact is, they didn't do it. Go back to the Hennesey Vipers if you want start including modifications to your arguments. As for rants vs. arguments, see the quarter mile times that you obviously didn't look at. 13 sections flat is 13 seconds flat, new technology or not. You may not like new technology, or consider them real muscle cars, but the timing tower at the drag strip doesn't care what year the car is.

Originally posted by viking
Don't sweat the petty things (and don't pet the sweaty things) after all, "When the green light drops, the bullsh!t stops"

2002 Camaro SS 13.50@108 346 LS1 325 HP 6-Spd 3.42
2004 Ford Mustang Cobra 13.30@108 280 390 HP 6-Spd 3.55
2005 Pontiac GTO 13.10@??? 364 LS2 400 HP Auto 3.46

Heres my two cents:

I work at a local track and watch EVERY kind of car imaginable go down the track, I have watched many mustangs and gtos go down the track and sorry but they dont come close to no 13.10 or 13.50 or whatever.....PERIOD.... Im not quite sure of a cut off date but it was before the 80s and after the 70s for sure. You may think that turbo cars should be muscle cars or vipers are muscle cars or whatever, in my opinion they are a rich mans sports car. If its not sold at a swap meet then it aint muscle.

Originally posted by DennyW
Kool John, now you got me hummin that song: Kool aid Kool aid, tastes great! Wish I had some, can't wait, hahaha. Nice wheels on there to.

I just thought I'd post a koolaid rod

Kool Aid is really great if you spike it a little. Just don't tell the kids. They'll sleep like rocks. hehehehehe

Originally posted by techinspector1
swifster, why are you so angry and why do you feel you have to say hurtful things about us old guys?

"Again, don't drink the old geezer Kool Aid. Most are just intimidated by the technology"

"Sorry Matt, stop drinking the old guys Kool Aid. The old guys talk about the good old days. Matt wake up. As far as performance cars go, these are the good old days!"

"Ah, the Kool Aid drinking, remember the good old days, crew has arrived"

What's all this reference to kool-aid and just who the hell do you think you are anyway. It's unfortunate that your parents weren't able to teach you any manners.

"What I don't like is automotive snobbery"

You must like it, you're practicing it full steam ahead on this thread.

swifster, this is Club Hot Rod, not Club Tuner. Seriously, if you can't be polite and tolerant of us old guys and our ideas and solutions to problems, move on to another forum with other computer, tuner types where you can be happier.

Richard, I'm far from angry. You need to reread the thread. I like all things automotive. I'm for inclusion not exclusion. You may not like the Kool Aid reference, but I thought is was better than propaganda (and easier to spell).

And no, I'm not into tuner cars. My Suzuki is set up for SCCA road racing. It doesn't have big boom boxes, weird body kits, and spoilers that do nothing but weigh the back of the car down. It does have a 8 Pt cage, a 6K trans, and slicks at all for corners. If you watch the Speed channel, check out the Runoffs for the SCCA and watch for G and H Production.

I also have a '64 Studebaker Daytona. That is my 'hot rod'. It's going to have a 421 CI V-8 with a roots blower (tucked under the hood). The car is being built like you would build a classic hot rod (from the ground up). I have a lot of respect for cars of the same era. I said has much. I certainly wouldn't take a knife to a gun fight and a wouldn't drive a Civic to race a Camaro (of just about any vintage).

Wouldn't you call it snobbery when many (not all) say that newer cars shouldn't be called 'muscle cars'? I have many friends with newer Camaros, Firebirds, Grand Nationals, Corvettes, GTOs and Mustangs that run 11's and 12's all day. They're not included?

This was a discussion over what could be discussed as a Muscle Car. Wouldn't you agree that for the most part the older generation thinks newer cars are crap? I could go back and quote Streets again for you, but I'm sure you read it.

As for respect, that's a two-way street. I have plenty of respect for those on these boards. But what you may need to understand is that there is two sides to everything. I look forward to new ideas and solutions, but can you say the same. That is actually what this whole thread is about; new ideas. Computers vs carbs, roots blowers vs turbos, live axle vs IRS, vinyl vs leather (god, I love the smell of new leather in the morning), old LS6 vs new LS6.

I'll make you a deal. I'll go hitch a ride in my buddy's '68 Shelby Mustang GT350 and you hit your local Ford dealer and take a new Mustang GT for a test drive. I know when we're done we'll both have had a blast. But right now, I know I'll have fun in the old Mustang. Do you think you'll have fun in the new one?

OK swifster, heres how I look at your nice little "newer technology on older blocks doesnt work" theory. Do you know what a MSD box is? Do you know why the points style ingition has been swapped out of the majority of driven hot rods/muslce cars? Do you know why the 426Hemi was rated at a mere 425HP? When these cars were created, they were pulling 13s on crappy bias tires with standard issue widths, stopping them with drum brakes. Nowadays the cars are running 18/70 and 60 series with tires wider then two of the classic rubber put together. 13 seconds is 13 seconds-true. But its a lot more impressive to see 13 seconds from a man with a broken foot than a guy running 13 with the wind with $600 sneakers. As for your newer cars becoming muscle cars, Im afraid not. Feel free to post their stock times on the "Fastest American Cars" list forum. But their no more a muscle car than your suzuki.

Dang, it's on now

Originally posted by drg84
OK swifster, heres how I look at your nice little "newer technology on older blocks doesnt work" theory. Do you know what a MSD box is? Do you know why the points style ingition has been swapped out of the majority of driven hot rods/muslce cars? Do you know why the 426Hemi was rated at a mere 425HP? When these cars were created, they were pulling 13s on crappy bias tires with standard issue widths, stopping them with drum brakes. Nowadays the cars are running 18/70 and 60 series with tires wider then two of the classic rubber put together. 13 seconds is 13 seconds-true. But its a lot more impressive to see 13 seconds from a man with a broken foot than a guy running 13 with the wind with $600 sneakers. As for your newer cars becoming muscle cars, Im afraid not. Feel free to post their stock times on the "Fastest American Cars" list forum. But their no more a muscle car than your suzuki.

What car came from Detroit (or South Bend) with an MSD box? Remember, this was your list showing "as delivered" times. You set the rules. 13.10 for a new GTO is still 13.10 .

As for why 426's were only rated at 425 HP, yes I do. I also know why the '67 GTO was rated at only 360 HP, and why LS6 Chevelle SS' were only rated at 450 HP. Insurance! It was to keep these cars from being black listed. At your age in 1970, you wouldn't have been able to afford the insurance on a Hemi Cuda.

As for whining about what tires they came on, well, let me offer you some cheese with that. Most of those old muscle cars, along with MSD's are also using new tires. How many cars needed major engine work to get into the 12's? Newer cars do it by reprogramming the computer, swapping a few pieces here or there. Don't even have to get dirty.

As for my Suzuki, you think you can outrun my 125 HP econobox? There was talk about T-Buckets and Cobras with blowers. Bring them up to Detroit. I'll run them for any amount they want. I only have one demand. I pick the track .

Viking ----My 427 cobra (shell valley car)

My Wifes grandpa was the man who started Shell Valley. To bad he sold it a few years ago. But then again if I went blind and my wife left me I guess I would sell it too. He's a really crazy guy kinda scares me. haha I wouldnt mind seeing your car.