Thread: How Dangerous is Drag racing

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A note, the site of the Duponts Original home here in Flint has now been turned into a riverside Veterans Memorial Park.
Charles Ketting, former CEO of Buick and founding Fellow of GMI/Kettering is also the owner and founder of The Dayton Electric Company of Dayton Ohio. This is the 1st company to produce a viable automotive electric starter. 72 per cent of said production was consigned to the Cadillac and Lassale sister companies, the remainder to FORD.
As engineers at Ford, The Chevrolet Brothers duped the strater under a Ford patent and Billy Durant Jr. aquired Cadillac and Lassal which led to the aquisition of Dayton Electric Company itself, then to become a part of AC spark plug division known as DELCO.
AC Spark Plugs divsion is itself a hostile aquisition as well. Aqured from Albert Champion its founder, he who later SUIED GM and subjected them to a Justice department Anti-trust suit over same then founded todays Champion Spark Plug Company which he later almost lost to FORD.
The founder of Cadillac which he lost to GM along with its sister company Lassalle, is also the founder of Linclon which he lost by aquisition to FORD. the former he named for the region in france of his ancestory, the latter he named for his favorite president.
1970 is considered far and away the hey day year of factory muslce car production and offering. In that year the 1st 3 quickest factory offerings from GM, indeed any domestic suoppliers were not Chevrolets of Mopars or Fords, they were BUICKS. #1 1970 Stage 2 455 GSX Skylark w/ M22 4sp, 15"x6" frnt and 15"x7" rear Magnum 500 wheels and 3.64 posi trac 10blt rear. These were rated conservatively @ 390bhp@5000rpm while peak power of 514bhp actually occured at 5800rpm. The TQ rate was sety conservatively @ 526 lb/ft@ 2800rpm while peak of 565 actually occured at 3600rpm.
#2 1970 Stage 1 455 GSX Skylark with the same remaining equipment as the stage 2 car. These were conservatively rated @ 370bhp@5000, while peak bhp of 453 actually occured at 5800rpm. 515lb/ft @2800rpm while peak of actually occured at 3600rpm and was 540lb/ft.
#3 1970 Stage 1 455 GS Skylark with the remaining same equipment as the #'s 1 n 2 cars. These were rated at 360bhp@5000rpm and 510lb/ft @ 2600rpm, acxtuals were 421bhp@5300rpm and 525lb/ft @3600rpm.
The Stage 1 455 in the GSX cars uses the Stage 2 455 cam shaft, with stage 1 intake, carb and exhaust, 2.25". Stage 2 455's come with 835 CFM carbs on an Offy B4B aluminum intakes, special hgh flow heads and a custom set of tubular exhaust(headers) attached to a 2.5" exhaust. The stage 1 exhaust do not fit Stage 2 Heads, altho the intakes do interchange readily. All 3 cars in the tests were equiped with pwr steering, windows, brakes, tilt, buckets and console, guage pac and AC, as well as AM/FM 8 track cassette stereo sound systems.
Again, this is not delusion or hearsay, this is fact of my knowlede and experience WITH the cars of the day AT the time they were being produced. In point of fact i had my azz handed to me by a 69 Stage 2 car driving my friends 70 Hemi 4 spd challenger and the 69 cars , like the 68 Stage 2 cars were 400's not 455's. i also had my azz handed to me driving my own LS6 4spd 4.10 geared N50 x 15 tired 1970 Corvette by a 71 Stage 2 car.
The 69 400 car was on 9" x 15" slicks, but the 71 car that beat my vette was on L60 x 15" Mickey Thompson street tires while my vette was on N50 x 15" Mickey Thompson street tires.
BTW, my friends Hemi Challenger i raced the 69 car with, it too was on 9" x 15" slicks, other than rear tires tho, neither car had any visible or audible modifications, cept the 69 car had a blow proof safty bell. All Stage 1 and Stage 2 cars are hydraulic lifter so even in sanctioned competition a blow proof bell was NOT required at that time.
Attached is some Buick History and a picture of my friends Drew's 71 Stage 1 455 automatic car which is loaded and street driven. save for the wheels and tires there are also no visible or audible deviation from stock anywhere in or on the car. n this is a GS not a GSX.
This is one of the cars that accounts for why my 88 BMW 3 Series Post Coupe is powered by a Stage 2 455 n TH400, I however have custom after Market headers w/ 3" exhaust n tail pipes and tho my engine is actually Built from a Combination of Stage 1 455 parts it has much more intake and carb and a much nastier camshaft than any stock Stage 2 motor ever had, not to mention i have 2 stages of spray totaling 300bhp all in front of a 3.50 posi geared Ford 9" axle suspended on Mopar Super Stock leaf springs for a 68 A Body Hemi Cuda race car. This is one of the 2 street rides i spoke on in the most previous posts with which i am sure to b able to trailer most of the cars of the ignorant mouths talkin smack about what i say about street racing who have so called track only race cars on the street or at a track.
The other is a full body, full interior, full exhaust, pmp gas 455 H. O. Pontiac powered 1977 WS6 4spd Pontiac Trans Am, tho i now have a Tremec TKO600 5spd in the car, 2 stages of spray totaling 250bhp as well as much more cam, intake carb and exhaust than any stock 455 H.O. Pontiac ever had, it too has a full 3" exhaust with tail pipes and runs on 92-94 octane pmp gas just like the Bmer.
The reason i talk the talk so well is cause i can walk the walk even better. I don't play, i just like toys.

In the picture of my friend Drew's 71 GS car, at the top center standing in the stands in the white jacket at the very end of the 3rd row is ME....The GN in the next lane he's racing is also a friend of mine and that too was a mid to low 12 sec showroom condition car. This is at The Buick Nationals at Beach Bend Raceway in Bowling Green Ky way back in the early 90's.....

Originally Posted by robot

One note (not to support street racing however) is that almost all street racing gets thrown into the category of "Drag Racing" even if the cars have been swerving in and out of traffic for five miles and there is no "finish line" defined.....just driving stupid gets called drag racing by the news people.

Any form of motor racing is inherently dangerous. The thing about organized racing is it allows the individual driver to go to the very edge of his or her ability.

It's OK to take a chance if you are the only one who pays for a mistake.

Organized Drag racing, at a motorsports park; apart from almost any other form of racing is designed to protect the participants and spectators from those few who overestimate their ability. Or, more rarely, those whose luck and equipment fail at the same time.

Let this thread die gracefully. It's going no where.

If you race on the street, YOU MUST do so with respinsibility to urself and others that you PAY the TRACK to exercise for you.
make as sure as u can that u race at a time and in a place and manner where should injury or mishap occur the one most endangered is urself and or ur competition.

With all due respect, if there's a bigger load of baloney on this forum, I haven't read it yet. You simply cannot race RESPONSIBLY on the street.

And, with all those degrees, wasn't there a spelling course in there somewhere?

I'm done with this thread.

Racing of any form is inherantly dangerous by its very nature and if one would actually read the waiver u must sign to enter a track even as a spectator u would see that the track denies any responsibility for injury or death one might incur at the facility.
The reason this thread should die IS that its not going anywhere but its not going anywhere cause most of the posts are by folk who actually haven't the 1st clue about street racing and or they are trying to post everything in a slant or spin that best supports their view on the subject, nothing at all objective.
Street Racing, with good reason, is illegal. Illegality offers a measure of control that would otherwise not exist. However, most of what the public at large considers to b street racing and street racers actually is niether.
Street racing has existed since the days of horses and chariots and it will exist long after all of us here are dead and gone. Besides, all sanctioned racing is a play on what occured and occurs on the street, not the other way around. If, by some stroke of genious, there was an end to street racing totally there wouldn't b a sanctioned track of any type still open within a year of same; reason being, the only folk who make money at a track are the owners, their employees and those racers who WORK FOR a sponsor and or on a sponsored team operation, everyone else only SPENDS money; including the sponsors themselves; at a track. They SPEND this money as ADVERTISEMENT, in fact its taken out of their advertisement budget. They are advertising by racing on sunday to sell on mon-sat to those folk who seldom if ever race at a track OR the street. Even the auto manufacturers who sponsor race cars do it for this reason. The Army/Military sponsored rides are sponsored as a way of advertising the benifits of a military career, and they themselves are partially sponsored by makers of hgh perf parts and equipment for the same reason as they sponsor other race teams.
Probally the most widely held and expoused myth is that it is somehow safer to race at the track than it can b on the street. It isn't, the diff is at the track u PAY to have someone make u feel as if they have assumed the responsibility for u that u would have to assume for urself on the street, most importantly for most is the responsibility of seeing that u do not let ur mouth overload u and ur rides butt.
The next most widely held and expoused myth about street racing is that street racers are afraid to race at the track cause they are slow. There are many many street racers with STREET CARS that would send any number of so called track only RACE CARS to the pits and or the trailer so quick that quick ain't fast enuff to desbribe the trip.
Street racers fear racing at the track ? I have been drag racing in my own rides that i bought, wrenched and drove since July 5, 1963. I have raced as much at tracks as i have on the street. I have yet to find or even see on TV a track that it takes a fraction as much savvy, expertise and courage to race on as even the safest street at the safest time in the safest possible manner.
The end game is that unless and until u have BEEN a street racer, and i don't mean just a spectator but a participant, all you actually KNOW about it is your opinion; what you think based on what u may have heard or read. Opinions are yet like A-holes, everybody has one and they only work for THEM.
This is not to condone street racing, in fact as a street racer many if not most of the folk out there trying to practice it i would much prefer they went to the track, IF they raced at all. Racing, street or otherwise, like anything else, is npot for everyone and it was never intended to be.
One last thing, this enamoration with "PINKS". Most folk, including the host of the show haven't even the 1st clue what that actually means. Back in the day and in some states even to this day, when one bought a car on credit and had it finaced u didn't get a title but actually a pink copy of same or a pink bill of sale that would b replaced by a clear title once the ride was paid for and the lien was discharged. To call a bet for pink slips was a sucker coward bet made by someone who actually didn't want to race, since if ya won what ya got was a car with a lien on it that you can beat and the finace company or lien holder would soon be along to TAKE same from ya, LEGALLY, if u didn't make the notes. As i say, whole lot of folk doing a whole lot of talking but few who are actually talkng what they know.

I street raced when I was a young kid and didn't know any better. I've been part of the "scatter in all directions when the cops show up". That's the main reason the starting line was at a 4 corner intersection. My wife (then girlfriend) lives just down the road from one spot & the corn crib provided a hideout on more than 1 occasion. In our town a hideout wasn't necessary since there was only 1 cop with a slow car.
I wouldn't even consider doing that today. Common sense & the fact that it' illegal tells me the track is the ONLY place to race.

I don't watch pinks (although I plan to go to the pinks deal at Rt. 66 next weekend to see what it's all about), but isn't that how the original program was set up? Looser gives up the pink slip/title to the winner? There was some pink slip street racing back in my day, but most including me were never too keen on loosing that big. I don't think I ever even ran for money. It was just for braggin' rights.

I cut myself on the band saw a couple weeks ago, but I plan to keep using it. lol

thank god i remembered how to add someone to my ignore list ....... wizard .. cant you say anything without writing a book about it

Please Admin/Moderators-please lock this thread.I still get sick on Merry-Go-Round rides like when I was a kid.Thank You.

When I was a kid there was racing on the streets, as there is today, and u=it wasn't any safer then as it is now, except that the cars didn't go quite as fast. Occasionally there would be a title for title run, but I believe running for "pinks" came from California since the titles issued were pink.(see below) And no, I don't still have the 57, it long ago went to the big junk yard in the sky to come back, probably, as a Toyota or some other Nippon piece of crap. Isn't it amazing that he who spouts off the most knows the least?

Amazing. One little click can shorten a thread by half.

Originally Posted by Henry Rifle

Amazing. One little click can shorten a thread by half.

your welcome

This thread gets my vote for having the idiot posts of the year.

Folks, this is a topic on which few if any folk will agree, as i said earlier i have been drag racing, predominantly 1/4 in my own rides since July 5, 1963. During these decades i have and yet do participate in street races for money. For the past 25 years i have managed to win far more than i have lost in ALL my racing both at the track AND on the street.
I'm supposing i was indoctrinated into the street race scene differently than most it seems. My indoctrination was by my father, uncles, an aunt and a couple of elder 1st cousins.
1st i was taught that u never over estimate urself or under estimate the competition. Nedxt i was taught the the primary criteria for a streety race was to have same occur on as off peak a traffic road as possible and at a time when said traffic was off peak anyway. Also a place with plenty of stopping room, no pot holes. Next i was taught the there are some folk u do not race no matter what. Such as folkl who appear to b drunk or high and or beligerant. You ALWAYS check the safty equipment of the opponents ride at least visually as well as the tires and their condition. The goal is to have a race in which should the worst occur only urself ur opponent and ur rides are in jepordy. I find the very best way to insure this is to do as many of ur street races on week nights late, after setting same up by phone or in person at either ur place, the opponents or some nuetral place. Next i find that u limit the size of the bets to something reasonable for a number of reasons. 1st of all, BIG bets attract a LOT OF ATTENTION as well as totally uninvolved spectator crowds no matter when they go off and said crowds are predominantly wanna B's who actuall are no competition for either person but clown all the way to and from the race as if tryin to impress the racers. ext, NO ONE LIKES TO LOOSE, and many if not most folk have some type of excuse for their loss. These issues do not have much gravity if the bet is 25-100 bucks or so but iof the bet is BIG say in the many hundreds or thousands, these excuses grow LARGE and VERY important to the looser and this can and often does lead to animosity and such that also attracts a lot of uneeded and unwanted attention.
If one follows these easy rules when engageing in a street race the only policed who are goin to catch you are those who are, have been or have family member who are or have been street racers themselves cause these are the only bofficers who are going to know when, let alone where to look for ya.
If by chance u are busted b stand up and honest with the officers and do not insult their intelligence or try to run, after all the officer is doin exactly what ur tax dollars are paying him to do and YOU should have been more carefull in the planning and execution of ur race. Better u try to develope a rapore with the officer on some common level, preferably something with as much humor as possible injected. You were out there breaking the law. don't suddenly turn coward and try to not be responsible for urself and ur actions.
In my years of racing the streets in many places thruout the mid north, central and southern part of the country i have been busted dead to rights before, during and after a street race. The worst i have ever gotten was an unsafe start or speeding ticket and an admonishment. Once when busted lined up for a street race, after conversing with the officer for a few, my opponent and i were told to DO THE RACE, the looser gets the citation. Another time when busted i amiably asked the officer if it was ok to collect my winnings from the opponent, his reply was " yea, ur gonna need it to help pay this ticket im about to give ya". Yet again, having had a flat on a slick after a race that left me still on the scene when the police arrived, i was allowed to tow my car home at my own expense and given an admonishment in spite of the fact it was OBVIOUS what i was there for, especially sporting a set of 29 x 11 x 15 MT Slicks and a 3" exhaust on a 69 Stage 2 400 4spd Gran Sport Buick Skylark.
As i said previously, most of the posts to this thread are by folk who actually have no clue what real street racing entails, if they have ever seen a REAL street racer they hadn't the 1st clue what they were looking at. Most equate a street racer with the idiots depicted in movies such as the Fast and the Furious which i call the fumbling and the foolish, or the Biker boys, which as an avid biker who also races his bike i call the evil kinivel(sp) wanna B's. I leave all the tricks and stunts on bikes up to Super Dave.
The rest of the poster to this thread are just haters who haven't the nerve or expertise to successfully race the street so they hope to spin everything in a manner that covers that fact and makes them out to somehow b better than folk who race the street. The bottom line is that if YOU OPERATE ANY HIGH PEFORMANCE ride on the streets u have and will race it on the street even if u only race urself and if ya say different ur a damn liar and a poor one at that. So u can talk ur azz off otherwise, it just doesn't fly or track.

Originally Posted by MrWizard455

.....The bottom line is that if YOU OPERATE ANY HIGH PEFORMANCE ride on the streets u have and will race it on the street even if u only race urself and if ya say different ur a damn liar and a poor one at that. So u can talk ur azz off otherwise, it just doesn't fly or track.

If I stretch my english far enough I think you do have a point in there. But with that said and after suffering through your delivery on this and in other threads, you also really have proven yourself to be quite the idiot as well.

Kitz

Originally Posted by MrWizard455

Folks, this is a topic on which few if any folk will agree, as i said earlier i have been drag racing, predominantly 1/4 in my own rides since July 5, 1963. During these decades i have and yet do participate in street races for money. For the past 25 years i have managed to win far more than i have lost in ALL my racing both at the track AND on the street.
I'm supposing i was indoctrinated into the street race scene differently than most it seems. My indoctrination was by my father, uncles, an aunt and a couple of elder 1st cousins.
1st i was taught that u never over estimate urself or under estimate the competition. Nedxt i was taught the the primary criteria for a streety race was to have same occur on as off peak a traffic road as possible and at a time when said traffic was off peak anyway. Also a place with plenty of stopping room, no pot holes. Next i was taught the there are some folk u do not race no matter what. Such as folkl who appear to b drunk or high and or beligerant. You ALWAYS check the safty equipment of the opponents ride at least visually as well as the tires and their condition. The goal is to have a race in which should the worst occur only urself ur opponent and ur rides are in jepordy. I find the very best way to insure this is to do as many of ur street races on week nights late, after setting same up by phone or in person at either ur place, the opponents or some nuetral place. Next i find that u limit the size of the bets to something reasonable for a number of reasons. 1st of all, BIG bets attract a LOT OF ATTENTION as well as totally uninvolved spectator crowds no matter when they go off and said crowds are predominantly wanna B's who actuall are no competition for either person but clown all the way to and from the race as if tryin to impress the racers. ext, NO ONE LIKES TO LOOSE, and many if not most folk have some type of excuse for their loss. These issues do not have much gravity if the bet is 25-100 bucks or so but iof the bet is BIG say in the many hundreds or thousands, these excuses grow LARGE and VERY important to the looser and this can and often does lead to animosity and such that also attracts a lot of uneeded and unwanted attention.
If one follows these easy rules when engageing in a street race the only policed who are goin to catch you are those who are, have been or have family member who are or have been street racers themselves cause these are the only bofficers who are going to know when, let alone where to look for ya.
If by chance u are busted b stand up and honest with the officers and do not insult their intelligence or try to run, after all the officer is doin exactly what ur tax dollars are paying him to do and YOU should have been more carefull in the planning and execution of ur race. Better u try to develope a rapore with the officer on some common level, preferably something with as much humor as possible injected. You were out there breaking the law. don't suddenly turn coward and try to not be responsible for urself and ur actions.
In my years of racing the streets in many places thruout the mid north, central and southern part of the country i have been busted dead to rights before, during and after a street race. The worst i have ever gotten was an unsafe start or speeding ticket and an admonishment. Once when busted lined up for a street race, after conversing with the officer for a few, my opponent and i were told to DO THE RACE, the looser gets the citation. Another time when busted i amiably asked the officer if it was ok to collect my winnings from the opponent, his reply was " yea, ur gonna need it to help pay this ticket im about to give ya". Yet again, having had a flat on a slick after a race that left me still on the scene when the police arrived, i was allowed to tow my car home at my own expense and given an admonishment in spite of the fact it was OBVIOUS what i was there for, especially sporting a set of 29 x 11 x 15 MT Slicks and a 3" exhaust on a 69 Stage 2 400 4spd Gran Sport Buick Skylark.
As i said previously, most of the posts to this thread are by folk who actually have no clue what real street racing entails, if they have ever seen a REAL street racer they hadn't the 1st clue what they were looking at. Most equate a street racer with the idiots depicted in movies such as the Fast and the Furious which i call the fumbling and the foolish, or the Biker boys, which as an avid biker who also races his bike i call the evil kinivel(sp) wanna B's. I leave all the tricks and stunts on bikes up to Super Dave.
The rest of the poster to this thread are just haters who haven't the nerve or expertise to successfully race the street so they hope to spin everything in a manner that covers that fact and makes them out to somehow b better than folk who race the street. The bottom line is that if YOU OPERATE ANY HIGH PEFORMANCE ride on the streets u have and will race it on the street even if u only race urself and if ya say different ur a damn liar and a poor one at that. So u can talk ur azz off otherwise, it just doesn't fly or track.

WOW...dream on LMFAO