Thread: nitrous oxide

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Now that's a scary thought...I don't wont to be like that guy with
the tractor and backhoe running down the track. I guess I will ease
into this situation...rd

A big hit of nitrous will need to be softened a little. Meaning the bigger the hit the harder it beats your engines internals. So , you want to use a progressive controller also so you can bring the big hit in "softly". Also with a big hit you get traction loss so its another plus to bring it in "softly". With a progressive controller you could have a mild running engine for the street and give it a good dose of nitrous on the track , if your internals are up to snuff.

Originally Posted by BigTruckDriver

A big hit of nitrous will need to be softened a little. Meaning the bigger the hit the harder it beats your engines internals. So , you want to use a progressive controller also so you can bring the big hit in "softly". Also with a big hit you get traction loss so its another plus to bring it in "softly". With a progressive controller you could have a mild running engine for the street and give it a good dose of nitrous on the track , if your internals are up to snuff.

well i think rdobbs is pulling my chain there will be no soft hit in any gear with what he has with out any need for Nos.... to add if its tune in right it could maybe take a 100/150 shot if he s running c16+ fuel but you would be pushing it abit.try it with out before you add the fast way to bust stuff

Well, at least I have a good knowledge now from you guys who know
NOS,,,I think I will plug off the bottle for the time being and do what
Pat said...My ole 57 is just a playtoy, not a drag car, but I still have
that drag race blood in me from years past, and that is almost impossible
to get rid of..Kinda like an alcoholic....I am sure though that I will sooner
or later try the bottle

there is no need for the bottle if the belt is on . if you think you can find a gear to spray that thing in you let me know

to reinterate something i previously posted; PROGRESSIVE controllers are best left to hgh dollar, long experience pro race cars and teams who also have a wealth of spray experience with a number of diff engine and driveline combinations, failing THAT, IF u simply MUST use such a system in a predominantly street driven application, do so sparingly. These systems operate via a pulsing of the solenoids which leads to premature burning of the solenoid contacts thus premature failure. This because spray systems work best with a chargeing system with relatively hgh amp out put, IE: when ur system maintains 14+ volts and able to put out AT LEAST 110 amps. Incoporate sytems with hgh power electric fuel pmps, MSD ignitions and the like, not to mention, useing ligts, heaters, stereos ect such as might b the case on the street and u realize the need for such hgh amp output.
Again, ALWAYS use a staged system in a predominantly street driven application, one which ADDS additional spray with each progressive stage. on a throttle switch use the amout that u expect u may w/o blowing the tires away, and or inordinant driveline damage, whatever else in boost u want add in stages after that. I have built systems with as much as 3 stages, and seen systems wuith as many as 4. I do not recommend more than 2 stages in a street oriented system, since this gets u into the same possible problems and failures as would a Staged fogger system with some sort of progressive controller doing the staging, basically, in a wet system, each stage needs 2 solenoids, more noids, more things that can n usually WILL go wrong, jus when u can least afford em to.
Something for those new and or potential spray users, u will always here the non spray users portray spray as somehow a cheat, such comments as, " all throttle, no bottle"; " i don't need no spray "; " what, u afraid to run mtr to mtr ? "...don't buy into that, spray, in this day and age is jus another part/tool to use to go as quick as u can with the least amount of hassle and expenditure, and, most certainly in a street car, have as much driveabilty, MPG and durability as u can. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING achieves all those goals for as little as even the most expensive and intricate spray system, and nothing that does so is as easy to install and maintain, nor install as quickly with common tools.
Nitrous oxide does and can ONLY maximize normal aspiration, it can NOT exceed the max the physical size of the engine is capable of producing given that maximization, the only way to do that is to increase the atmopheric pressure within the inlet (BOOST). Thus spray is and should b still considered NORMALLY ASPIRATED, which is why many hg dollar setups which are turbo charger or supercharger equiped also use SPRAY. the answer to why can't u run straight motor is, I AM running straight motor.... I don't need no bottle, all throttle, no bottle...if u don't NEED spray, WHY are u concerned about whether or not I have it ? and a bottle is STILL ALL throttle, as evidenced by the fact that u can have spray and either or even both of the other predominate power adders, given a durable enuff engine to withstand the power ur able to produce, WHATEVER route u prefer to take to added power. u got an engine that can contain 500bhp n u make 600, its gonna come undone whether u spray, or boost in short order...even if u DON'T use a power adder to do it...simple as that.
In todays hot rodding world, in any competition where spray is allowed, u either have it, or u need it.
Nothing is more disatisfing than for someone with LESS mtr than u have, maybe even LESS car than u come along and spray ya in both eyeballs n blow ya in the weeds, nothing is more of an inexcusable loss either, cause YOU can have it to...
I can build a simple 2 stage wet plate system, dummy proof, including the attendant periphial and safty equipment, as well as the ignition upgrades and knock as much as 2 secs off the et of even an otherwise bone stocker fort well under 2k, think of something else that can do that, or even half that for as much expense, let alone less ?
Besides, u can have a 10 sec mtr, put it in a 12 sec car with a 12 sec driver n ur gonna run 12's, unless its a 12.0 ride, then u MAY run some hgh 11's.
It is almost NEVER the ride with all the latest trick of the week parts n such that ends up king of the street or winnin the class at the track, it is the best working combination that operates the most consistantly. It ain't the fastest car that wins the drag race all the time, but it IS the quickest and most consistant that wins a drag race ALL the time.
Most folk, indeed anyone who rails against spray does so because they FEAR IT and are AFRAID to use it because of that, no matter what they say. Anyone else isn't gonna give a whoot in hell if u do or don't have spray.
Since spray is NOT equal to boost, do NOT get in the mindset that u can whoop all boosted rides with it, if ur up against a well done and operated boosted ride, u might no expect spray to b of some advantage to u, it isn't, the advantage is with the boost, they can exceed the TEP of the physical size of the engine, by a great deal too, u can't do that with spray u can only maximize same. This from a devout spray Junkie, with my hot rods, i treat it like American Express, i don't leave home w/o it.

Hey folks, lets disspell a myth really commonly expoused by many hot rodders, drag racers especially, NO ONE puts an exhaust system and/or sticky D.O.T. tires on a car or anything else to drive on the street unless they intend to RACE it on the street, no one puts RACE fuel in a STREET car with an exhaust unless they plan to race it on the street, even if they only intend to race themselves. If its a ride u ONLY RACE at the track, why would u carry the weight of an exhaust system, n why would u not jus buy a full on race slick ? In fact if its a track only race car, why would u even drive it on the street....right, you wouldn't.
Street Racing is illegal and with good reason, that being illegality offers a measure of control w/o which street racing would get even further out of hand, same as it would at the track w/o some measure of control. When u go to the track u PAY them to enforce that measure of control and safty for you, if u wanna race on the street u must offer that measure of ciontrol and safty for urself. If ur unwilling and or unable to do that but still race on the street, YOU ARE NOT A STREET RACER, you are Street Stupid, a Street Squirell, a plain old garden variety wreckless driver.
I had my 1st drag race on the street, that was July 5, 1963, as far as in my own ride that i wrenched AND drove, and i LOST, money too( i do not race for free, unless its a sand bag to set up a race for money, that only happens when i go to the track. My last drag race was on the street and i lost THAT too, money too. between the 1st and last drag race i have had i have always done the predominance of my racing on the street, i have been busted dead to rights, before, during and after a race on the street, worst i ever had was a defective eqipment for slicks, or unsafe start, or speeding, and never all three or even 2 of the three at any one time.
1st of all, if ur safty conscience, as well u should b, even more so than at the track in fact and avoid the fast n furious Movie stunt activity, the only cop thats gonna catch you or even know when or where to look to catch you is going to b one who is or has been a street racer themselves at least as a spectator. When and if u get busted, step up to the responsibilty u took to race on the street, don't run or try to, don't disrespect the officer or his or her intelligence with lies and excuses, with that u can always engage such an officer and find some common ground some humor and less of a hit in what they do and or write u for.
There is no NEW thing that a policeman who catches u racing on the street can do to you, not a single one, they could always TAKE your ride, put you in Jail, have ur lic revoked etc. What does happens when and if u r busted racing on the street is and always has been determined by how the officer writes it up, and what always dictates that is where, when, and how ur busted and most important, ur demeanor with the responding officer who busts you, act like a mature adult, be respectful and engaging and u may even jus get an admonishment, and sent on your way, this has been the bulk of my problems on those times i have been busted.
Once i was busted after winnin a 200 buck race, I asked the officer if it was alright to collect my winnings, his answer was " Yea, ur gonna need it to pay this citation ima give ya " said with a big grin, BTW im Black, he was southern white and a STATE TROOPER, in Arkansas, in the 70's.....
The end game is that Street racing, indeed racing at all is NOT for everyone, nothing is, and even among those for whom it is, " too much of anything is no good for ANYBODY ". If You are gonna race the street, don't boo whoo n whine when ya get caught, no matter what happens to ya, u deserve it, You should have been more careful and or you should have carried urself better with the officer.

well i like build big engine and like to drive them on the street 30 miles a day on weekends i can not afford a BMW or a new zo6 or porsche ferrari etc.i use soft tires so they go some that strait thru the gears and i do not kill my self. i am no diffrent then the guy that has a 42+ off shore boat with two or more big CID bbc pushing past 650hp a engine ask him why ? well why not? i am not the fast furious A$$ hole?/ street squirell but maybe? not going to tow my car 30 miles one way just to run thru the gears at the track?? they are street cars not race cars driving on the street with DoT tires .i been playing with the same cars for 30 years. maybe i am a fool but i do not need no Nos. cars run fine with out as they are street car and if the belt is on i am good and the other car needs no blower or Nos. no need to see if the bottle is full i not saying any thing about street racinghow .were .or when as i am using my real name on herei am just a older guy now that just like s to here the sound of a good running BBC V8 on a nice day rolling down the road .you roll up on me nothing going to happen

Guys trying to get info on NOS , not preaching.

you know which side of the fence `im on

no preaching intended if im who is refered to by that comment, jus passin along what i KNOW in a manner that makes it plain that i KNOW what im talkin about from actual hands on experience as well as education not just regurgitating what i may have heard or read or at least thought i did.

for the guy who messaged me bout the street squirrels and how he likes to cr, as well as not believeing they need nitrous. Unless u do not plan to race and have the best chance of winning that u can with the least amount of expense, then u DO need spray, its a fact of life in Drag Racin whether on the track or on the street.
As for u being a street squirrel, unlessd u practice the fast n furious style of street roddin/racin, ur not that by a long shot, u may not b nessecarily a street racer but ur certainly at least street savvy and street careful
as for age, i was born 9/11/49 and i been drag racin in my own rides that i wrench since july 5 1963 so like u, im far from a spring chicken in this or anything else....
as for most of the restt of the responses to my posts, some seem genuine others seem like the age old hater crap. Not to worry, let hater do what they do, if i have but 10 haters, i need a way to get at least 10 more, the more i have the better im doin.....
As i said earlier, i been usein spray since 1977, been building, installin n dialin in systems of all types for myself and others since 3 years after that, 1980, 29 years now, AND as i also said, all the mistakes, miscalculations, screw ups and research one can do about sprayin, especially thru a close exhaust system in a primarily street driven ride....been there done that, got the T-Shirt, baseball cap and a brand new shiny key chain.
Surfice it to say if talkin about sprayin was like talkin about roosters and i told ya a rooster dipped snuff, u could look under his left wing n find a new shiny tin of Skoal, a tin of copenhagen under his right wing, bacca dribble on his beek.

Originally Posted by MrWizard455

for the guy who messaged me bout the street squirrels and how he likes to cr, as well as not believeing they need nitrous. Unless u do not plan to race and have the best chance of winning that u can with the least amount of expense, then u DO need spray, its a fact of life in Drag Racin whether on the track or on the street.
As for u being a street squirrel, unlessd u practice the fast n furious style of street roddin/racin, ur not that by a long shot, u may not b nessecarily a street racer but ur certainly at least street savvy and street careful
as for age, i was born 9/11/49 and i been drag racin in my own rides that i wrench since july 5 1963 so like u, im far from a spring chicken in this or anything else....
as for most of the restt of the responses to my posts, some seem genuine others seem like the age old hater crap. Not to worry, let hater do what they do, if i have but 10 haters, i need a way to get at least 10 more, the more i have the better im doin.....
As i said earlier, i been usein spray since 1977, been building, installin n dialin in systems of all types for myself and others since 3 years after that, 1980, 29 years now, AND as i also said, all the mistakes, miscalculations, screw ups and research one can do about sprayin, especially thru a close exhaust system in a primarily street driven ride....been there done that, got the T-Shirt, baseball cap and a brand new shiny key chain.
Surfice it to say if talkin about sprayin was like talkin about roosters and i told ya a rooster dipped snuff, u could look under his left wing n find a new shiny tin of Skoal, a tin of copenhagen under his right wing, bacca dribble on his beek.

Who me you taking about me ???
i do not need Nos on my cars a 548 with a blower and a 632 are fine with out . i am ok with being SLow you use what gets your nuts off i like Nos keeps me fixing blocks heads rebuilding engines when the tune it not right

hey big PAT, ur right and then again, ur also wrong, with 5 n 6 inch mtrs in cars or whatever u certainly may not need any spray, that is unless and untuil u come across someone who has as much mtr , all else equal, AND have spray...
Not trying to garner any more Juice recruits, since the fewer folk that believe in and use it, the better my chances of continuing to have winnin drag race seasons.
As all racers, who actually race, know, no one wins em all, no matter what ya run or how much power u make. SOME1 is gonna hand u ur doors and often times it'll b some1 who isn't as quick or has as much as u do, sometime u will make a blunder and sometimes ur ride jus won't run right for the life of ya and u'll loose, EVEN WITH a power adder.
What i posted here so far is jus a portion of what i KNOW about spray and how best to take safe advantage of same, especially in a predominantly street driven and or muffled exhaust system. Kinda my chance to save some1 some of the mistakes, misconceptions and headaches of usein spray.
Like u i am a normilly aspirated freak and spray is still norminally aspirated, since it CAN NOT EXCEED the amount of power the physical size of the engine and the attendant inlet atmosphere pressure under which said engine is operated.
The great boon of spray and my primary reason for usein it is because i like door slammer street cars, and i mean STREET CARS, not a race car that u DRIVE on the street on occassion after u have gutted and stripped the car within an inch of its life, got race glass on the car front to back thats gonna b cracked all to hell if ya drive it much on the average city streets with all the pot holes, uneven surfaces etc...
ALL my hot rods must do their best performance thru a full exhaust system including tail pipes, on pmp gas AND b able to run at the posted speed limit or above anywhere in the country so long as i maintain adequate fuel supply with any more incident than poor MPG. WITH as many of the creature comfort features as i can reasonably retain.
For instance, the car which this MrWizard455 refers to is a 1988 3 series BMW Post coupe wghich came loaded with every avaialble option save for tilt wheel...
My only deletions of those to date has been the abs braking system,( the wilwood disc brake set-up that i use on the car's 9" ford axle is incompatible with the BMW Anti-loc system and the amount of camshaft event numbers i use r incompatible with power brakes) power brakes and the independant rear suspension, AC, Cruise, pwr windows locks, antenae, moon/sunroof remote fuel door and trunk release etc....
I also deleed the I R S rear suspension in favor of a 9" Ford axle suspended on a Mopar/Mancini Super Stock Leaf spring system sans Pinion snubber w/ Pro Preload Links obstencively for an A-Body Hemi Cuda Factory Race car. The Bmer, its present 100.5" wheel base(stock is 101, i moved the 9" 1/2 inch forward of stock placement)..is close to the 68 A-Body Cuda's 102", and finished weight @ 3517 empty is close to the weight of the A-Body Cuda.I use this because its a tried n true sraight forward, seldom needs adjustment sytem that only cost 899.00 for the whole kit, another 540 for the disc brake kit, as far as the axle itself i have moser 31 splines, Strange Alum Center section w/3.50 gear n Ford Track Loc Posi for a full size F-150, close as ya get to a locker w/o actually havein one. W/spray u can have a mtr with a TEP to support 1k BHP, make it make 5-600 of that on mtr which would make for a Mild mannered Big Block spray out ur remaining 4-500 hp on demand. end up with a pmp gas friendly mtr, w/ great duarbility n life, reasonable MPG and quite a bit more drivability than had u made the whole 1k hp on mtr alone.

ALL MY hot rods, are pmp gas street vehicles, all 4 have SOME Spray,Except my bike. 95 Kawasaki ZX11D Ninja, Muzzy Full powder coated exh w/ 1.5 prim Headers, Super Bike Mike 1109CC Kit( stock ZX11 is 1049CC) Mikuni 42mm flat slide carbs, stock ignition.
1).040 over 1970 Stage1 455 Buick, Stock Rods, forged flat top pistons(to maintain the stock 10-1 comp) Coan TH400 Race -/Brake trans w/2.38 1st gear(stock is 2.20). 3500 RPM Custom built balloon plate verter, custom steel D-Shaft, 9" Ford axle w/3.5, KB/TA Dominator intake, modified NOS 2 Stage Big Shot wet plate system, 1050 Holley Dom carb. flat tappet hyd cam w/ Rhodes lifters,1.65 shaft roller rockers(stock is 1.52) .523/.542 296/302 105/105, 3" stainless steel muffless catless dual exhaust w/ 4" resonator tips n X-pipe, Total 125 1st stage + 175 add on 2cnd stage=300. 10" Weld Drag Lite Classics x 15" rear 3.5"x 15 frnt 26 x 10.5 x 15 MT ET Streets, MSD 7al3 Ign. 1988 BMW 327AI Post Coupe.
2) Pontiac 455 H.O. stock super duty rods n nodular iron crank, balanced, forged 9-1 Ross pistons, ported/CC'd Pontiac V8 6H heads w/ 2.11 x 1.71 valves, Solid flat tappet .587/.593 298/304 105/106, Tremec TKO 600 5spd man trans(came w/ Borg Warner ST10 4spd, 2.43 1st) 2.67 1st x .64 5th OD, 3.08 geared corp 8.5 GM w/ Moser 28's,Moroso Brute Strenth Posi, comp engineering C-Clip elim kt, 10"weld Drag Lite Classics x 15", 3.5 x 15 frnt, 28 x 11.5 x 15 MT ET Streets. 2 Stage NOS Cheater based spray 100 1st stage 150 add on 2cnd stage, TQ'er II int, 830cfm Holley Race, 1.5 Harland Sharp Roller Rockers,3" stainless steel exh w/H pipe, 3" x 3" Flowmaster muffs w/Tail Pipes, MSD 7al2 Ignition w/ MSD 3step retard module, dial adjus 2step rpm module. 1977 455 H.O. WS6 Pontiac Trans Am.
3) 403" Olds,Hyd .520/.542 298/304 108/110 Edelbrock SBO int, edelbrock 750 elec chke carb,shvd/pr 4A hds , 7/8" prim Headman Headers, 3" Stainless Steel Dual Exh w/ 3" x 3" flowmasters n X-Pipe, 3500 converter ,TH350, 3.08 Posi GM Corp 8.5 axle, 2 stage super power shot based spray 50 1st stage 100 add on 2cnd stage, Comp Ultra Roller Rockers w/ screw in studs n guide plates, 7 x 15 rear 6 x 15 frnt Buick Riv/225 steel sport wheels, BFG 275 x 60r x 15 T/A Radials rear. MSD 6al2 digital ign w/ MSD 3step retard module. 1978 Buick Lesabre Custonm 4dr Sedan.
4) 400 + .030 SBC, 2.5x1.6 Pro 1 Iron SRT Heads, Edelbrock chrome plated 1 5/8 shorty headers, Edelbrock EPS Intake,750 Edebrock elec choke carb, 0-deck KB Forged Alum pistons, Crane 1.5 full roller rockers,Manley 6" H-Beam Forged steel rods, indexed n prep'd stock crank, 288/292 490/490 110/112 hyd cam w/ Rhodes lifters, stock alum wheels w 275 x 60r x 15 BFG TA Radials, single stage NOS Cheater wet plate w/150hp set, 8.5 GM Corp axle w/ 3.42 posi, 2500rpm converter, MSD 6al2 Digital ign. 1992 Chevy Sliverado lng bx std cab.