Thread: Offenhauser dual quad on an amc 401!

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I just posted two pictures of the Finnish AMC 65 convertible in the members galleries along with my Firebird. The front bumper certainly needs rechroming and the top is getting old, but you get the basic idea as to the style and potential. What do you think?

George

That's right, I can post here too. I'm not much of a computer whiz.

George

And here is the front...

I see this post is old but I would like to try contacting this guy. I have the same exact project going and would like to find out how to bolt the t-89 to the 401. From what I understand there’s two bell housings available, one shallow and deep. To my knowledge the deep one is not deep enough because the input shaft is too long on the transmission (longer than the t-10). I’m not 100% sure on all this. I just want to get a plan before I pull the 327. How do I go about this?

I’ve tried contacting gschild but seems to not be working right. Does some one know this guy or know how to do this??

Thanks much, Kenton

He's still alive.

He is running a thread right now about rear axle whine, hijack that thread a little and let him know you want to reach him.

Don

MODEL TYPE ENGINES USED WITH YEARS
T-96 3spd non-sync. 196/199/232 '60-'70
T-96J 3spd non-sync. 232 '67, 70-'72
T-86/90 3spd non-sync. 196/199/232/287/290 '50-'67
T-85/89 3spd non-sync. 250/327 '60-'66
T-14 3spd synchro 232/258/290/304 '68-'76
T-15 3spd synchro 304/360/390 '68-'71
T-10 4spd synchro 290/343/360/390/401 '66-'74
150-T 3spd synchro 258/304/360 '74-'79
SR-4 4spd synchro 232/258/304 '76-'81
T4 4spd synchro 151/258 '82-'88
T5 5spd synchro 151/258 '83-'88
HR-1 4spd synchro 121 '77-'79

T-96 used also in Jeeps (CJ2->), Studebaker sixes, and early Falcons.
T-96J was only used by AMC (much harder to find parts for).
T-96J was used in Rebel & American in '67 as well as '70-'72 Hornets & Gremlins
T-96J is a hd version of the T-96 with a larger mainshaft and bearings and different gearing.

T-96J Some were prone to premature failure due to improper hardening of internal shafts circa 1971

T-86 used also by Ford with o/d. (289)
T-86 has top cover 6 bolts like the T-14.
T-86 was a hd option behind the 196, stock all got T-96.
T-85/89 is a big veefy 3spd used with many early-mid '60s engines.
T-85/89 also used by Ford with o/d. (390) used by Olds mid '60s. (394)
T-85/89 had a 4th gear added and became T-10.
T-10/85/89 all had the 9 bolt side cover , but the T-89 shift arms were (stagered ) not inline like the T-10 & 85 .
T-14 replaced the T-86 behind 290s starting in '68. Also in '68 the 232 moved up to the t-14 and the 290 moved up to the t-15.

T-10 is always 10-spline.
*T-14 '68-'70 (coarse) splines interchange
*T-14 '71-'72 (coarse) splines interchange
*T-14 '73-'76 (fine-TF) splines interchange
*T-14 differences are the output spline and extension housing. Two gear sets [2.61:1 and 3.10:1 first] and perhaps that accounts for the last two numbers.

*T-14 No pattern for gear use [six vs. 304, gremlin vs. matador]; it simply seems to be 'top o' the pile', in best AMC tradition.
T-14/T-15 are both 10 spline but T-14 (and T-96) are 10x15/16 where the T-15 is 10x1 1/8. Bold parrent/shaft length are also different.
T-15 has an almost square pattern, 5.75x6" also common for T-86 (and Jeep T-14)
T-15 is propably biggest 3spd ever used in cars.
*T-15 was used in Jeeps until '75, and in some IH Harversters/Scouts
T-15 was the fleet/hd option for 232 Rebels and Ambos.
T-10 and T-89 bolt patterns look very similar also to '49-'64 Ford pattern.
T-10 was used almost by every US car company in some point in time.
T-10 '66-'70 used Large ( diameter, thicker) bearing cap, with the 10-1/2 inch clutch with long throw out bearing.
T-10 '71-up used Small (diameter, thinner) bearing cap, with the 11 inch clutch with short throw out bearing. This was also the same bearing that T-96 and T-14 used.
T-10 that AMC used was "P" series '65-'66, "T" series '67-early'68, and "V" series from late '68 until they quit using it.
T-10 Ford case looks the same, but the bottom left bolt hole is kicked out toward the drivers side . In AMC case the bottom right bolt is kicked out toward passenger side. Input shaft, tail shaft and tail shaft housing are different and can not be used. But most internals of the Ford, should work since they use the basically same case. (though are geared differently)
T-10 1970 some applications in Javelins use the National -8169-S rear seal rather than the commonly called for seal part number.
T-10 used by AMC '73/'74 was also known as "Super T-10" as reaction to GM moving on to Muncie (redesigned T-10, in-house in '64)
T-10 Super aluminum cases are good for ~14lbs over iron

T-10 Super were available in three series (AMC may have used):
SI dated from ~'66
SII dated from ~'74
SIII dated from '78

Bearing retainer thickness is a clue and SIII cluster shafts are bigger, 1" vs 7/8".

SR-4 was also used with 304s in '79 Spirit GT/AMX's! (it's ONLY good for 220 ft lbs.)
SR-4 AMC is pretty much the small as the Ford versions.
T-5 from a Mustang will fit any AMC engine if you get the bellhousing from SR-4 ('76-'81), T-4 ('82-'88) or T-5 ('83-'88), and the throw out arm and bearing, from the same bell. Also the front bearing retainer is needed, if you don't want to modify the Mustang part. Right clutch disc with the correct # of splines that also fits the pressure plate you're using, and the pilot bearing is also needed.
The 150-T (Tremec) is a Ford Toploader design. All the big three used them in the late '70s; A toploader 4spd will slip right into the bellhousing and clutch. Also the output spline is the same [28] - the 150t is ford all the way. From compact to midsize cars the trannies are the same length as the 3spd. '77-'79 Granadas have an O/D version and the later aluminum O/D input shaft is 5/8" longer. Big engine fords have a 1.375x10 spline input and 31-spline output Iron Duke 2.5L and the AMC 150cid equipped Jeeps are all equipped with a hydraulic clutch assembly, as are the Cherokee and Wrangler sixes (GM 2.8, 4.0, 4.2).HR-1 (by BW) was the tranny used by Porsche/Audi 121cid and it has an unique bolt pattern.
T-96 shaft length is 6.5"
T-14 shaft length is 6.5"
T-15 shaft length is 8"
T-10 shaft length is 8"

The flywheel was changed in the sixes '71(153->164 teeth) and
this coincided with the bellhousing going to the V8 size/pattern.

OVERDRIVES
Borg Warner OD was available from early '60 to '69, and during '70-'73 there wasn't one available. Laycock-DeNormanville OD was available '74-'76 but only for the six cyls with 150-T. The T-89 also was used with the OD in the V8 torque tube cars. Borg-Warner overdrive case is 11-3/4" long (less torque tube adapter, if required). This includes the 1-1/2" thick adapter. A complete T-96 w/OD is 18-3/4" long from front of case to end of tailshaft housing. The OD unit is the same for all.

T-10 FOUR SPEED RATIOS
series 1st 2nd 3rd
CC (GM) 2.88:1 1.91:1 1.33:1
EE (GM) 2.88:1 1.74:1 1.22:1
EE (GM) 2.43:1 1.34:1 1.13:1
OD (GM) 2.23:1 1.23:1 0.94:1
P (AMC) 2.43:1 1:76:1 1:46:1
Q (Ford) 2.64:1 2.10:1 1.60:1
S (AMC/GM/*) 2.43:1 1.61:1 1.23:1
T (AMC) 2.64:1 2:10:1 1.46:1
V (AMC/*) 2.23:1 1.77:1 1.35:1
W (GM/*) 2.64:1 1.75:1 1.33:1
X (aftermarket) 2.64:1 1.61:1 1.23:1
Y (aftermarket) 2.88:1 1.74:1 1.33:1
Z (GM) 3.42:1 2.28:1 1.46:1
U (GM/*) 3.42:1 2.28:1 1.46:1

The drive hears vary pretty much by first-gear ratio but the first on the cluster is the same for all but the last."V" series was used '66-'68 with 2:64 and 2:43 1st gear. These were wide ratio trans.

"U" series also had 34 tooth first driven by 18 on the cluster. Later when GM used it on the assembly line the tooth count was changed to a stronger 30 driven by 16 . Some T-10's were Super T-10's with alumnium mainbodies. "Z" series were all SIII, but to simplify rebuilding Warner came up with a set of parts that would work in a

* SII (7/8" cluster shaft) case, this maybe "U"

There are ways to tell T-10's apart for example:
2:23 "V" has 5 grooves cut into the input shaft,
2:43 "P" has 4 grooves cut into the input shaft,
2:64 "T" has 3 grooves cut into the input shaft,
2:64 "W" super T10 has 1 groove cut into the input shaft.
2:43 "S" super T10 also has just 1 groove.

Some cases also have a machined boss on the lower drivers side toward the front with the date code stamped into them.

ID AMC MANUAL TRANS:
Get the number of cover bolts and the shape of the shifter bosses (where the shifter enters the trans) for the ID.

T-86 6 bolt, round, connected with brace 8"
T-90 6 bolt, round, connected with brace 8"
T-96 4 bolt, round, separate 7"
T-14 6 bolt, 1/2 round, separate 8.66"
T-15 8 bolt, 1/2 round, connected 10"
150-T 9 bolt, round, small & large section 9.25"

BELLHOUSING:
'67 and later V8s (290/304/343/360/390/401) have a different pattern than '66 and earlier V8s (250/287/327 only). All '72-up (calendar year) AMC sixes and V8's have the same bellhousing bolt pattern. Only difference is depth of bell and consequently the length of the transmission input shaft. They can be interchanged. Some early '72 models might have the old six bellhousing pattern.

Generally all AMC's of the same year and engine will have the same transmissions, Changeover years (eg. '75-'76) can be a tossup though. The Jeep 4.0l bellhousing will work with the '72-up AMC six.

The four cylinder uses same ford-style trans as sixes/v8s but have a GM bolt pattern on the engine side.

The six cylinder bellhousings are 6.5", V8 is 8"

T-96, T-14 [in cars], SR-4/T4/T5 and 150-T are 'short'; T-89, T-86, T-10, and T-15 are'deep'.

Some 304s in the small cars used the six cylinder bell. (for example the SR4 equipped 304) (and t-14 equipped, early-mid '70s.)

The 150-T and SR-4/T-4/T-5 are two different bolt patterns. Ford bellhousings of the right years are often drilled with both. Ford bolt patterns. (meaning the one AMC used as well)

AMC used a multi-pattern bellhousing from the late 70's through at least 83 had patterns drilled for T-96, T-14/15/4/5/SR-4.

The T-5 was optional on any AMC T-4 application and should use the same bellhousing. (also shared with the SR-4, some are also with 150-T). The original Ford bellhousing won't work.

The AMC 150 has a GM 2.8 60-degree bellhousing.

T-89
T-85/89 had a 4th gear added and became T-10.

T-89 is a big veefy 3spd used with many early-mid '60s engines.

T-89 also used by Ford (w/ overdrive) (390) and by Olds mid '60s. (394)

T-89 (w/ overdrive) Ford was the last to offer them in '71 pickups.

T-85 (basically the same tranny as T-89) was also used with Dodge-Plymouth 426 engine in '64

T-10/85/89 all had the 9 bolt side cover , but the T-89 shift arms were (stagered ) not inline like the T-10 & 85.

T-89 and T-10 bolt patterns look very similar also to '49-'64 Ford pattern.

T-89 was fitted with a BW overdrive unit on the rear. These didn't bolt to just any tranny, there was an adapter about an inch thick (25-26 mm) that went between the tranny and over-drive unit. The output shaft of the tranny was a short length and splined to fit into the over-drive unit as well.

The T-89 also was used with the over-drive in the V8 torque tube cars.

This is from the AMC Power Book of the mid 1970s:

bellhsin.gif

Ya, this is the info. I have, I also have the 8 inch bellhousings. The bellhousing on the 327 looks like its 10 inches deep (still in the car) so the imput shaft must be very very long on the t-89. So how did gschuld get around this?

Thanks, Kenton

The bellhousing on the 327 looks like its 10 inches deep

The early motors were before my time, so I don't know for sure, but I would think that you should go out & MEASURE the bell depth & input shaft length before you go any further!!!

umm no kidden...