Thread: Which Fuel Inj. to buy...

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Originally Posted by ewingr

Robot Mike

Thanks for you detailed input. I agree with the single source option you suggest.

I am sure I will have to purchase a distributor as well.

I'll do some investigation, and pricing. Then I'll decide between changing out the blower vs. selling the whole engine and getting an LS1. I hear a lot of good things about those engines.

I found this dealer in Club Cobra

From member thorconstr,


Thor Motorsports
Competition Fuel Injection
Systems and Accessories
41 Titus Coan Road
Killingworth, CT 06419
860-663-0480 cell 860-790-0140
Al Wohlstrom
thorconstr@msn


Pricing for TWM 427 Ford Injection

TWM 427 58mm kit, includes manifold for distributor, 4 two barrel 58mm throttle bodies, fuel rails, manifold mounted linkage, vacuum lines with plenum and air horns. $4,050.00
Bosch 42# or 65# injectors. $510.00
Aeromotive A1000 fuel pump, regulator, and filter. $750.00
F.A.S.T. XFI ECU, harness and O2 sensor. $2,250.00
MAP, water, and air sensors. $95.00
Crank trigger. $275.00
Polishing for manifold, throttle bodies, fuel rails, and air horns. $1,500.00
Shipping for the above. $75.00
__________________
Brent Mills
Club Cobra

so, I just need to keep on talking and learning for now.

I agree that Stack Injection looks pretty neat. The Holley Stealth Ram looks pretty good too...but in the end, I don't think as neat as stack.

But, if there are problems with keeping stack in synch (stack in general, as opposed to a specific brand), I don't want to take on any problems.

The pricing listed by HCAR comes close to 10,000. Yikes! For that price, I'll definitely be looking at an LS1 instead.

I think the Holley is close to 3,000. But, I don't see it on any cars. I've been to 4 car shows over the past year with 2000-3000 cars each, and have not seen one. I've been watching in order to talk with someone about it. So, that leaves me curious, if not dubious I did see some of teh Imagine stuff at the show, and it looks good.

Hmmm...as I think about this, I'd probably need to change my cam too.

Uptown83...I can relate to loss of desire when gas mileage is so poor. I have experienced it that bad in teh distant past, when I had a 440 and 486gear in a 32 coupe. My 56 is getting 10, and if I take the blower belt off, it gets up to 14, usually in the 12.5-13.5 range on teh road. I'm hoping to improve that if I put injection on...but wonder if I'll be disappointed.

As I look at some of these costs, teh LS1 sounds better and better. Of course, that would be a pretty major retro fit for me.

Originally Posted by ewingr

so, I just need to keep on talking and learning for now.

I agree that Stack Injection looks pretty neat. The Holley Stealth Ram looks pretty good too...but in the end, I don't think as neat as stack.

But, if there are problems with keeping stack in synch (stack in general, as opposed to a specific brand), I don't want to take on any problems.

The pricing listed by HCAR comes close to 10,000. Yikes! For that price, I'll definitely be looking at an LS1 instead.

I think the Holley is close to 3,000. But, I don't see it on any cars. I've been to 4 car shows over the past year with 2000-3000 cars each, and have not seen one. I've been watching in order to talk with someone about it. So, that leaves me curious, if not dubious I did see some of teh Imagine stuff at the show, and it looks good.

Hmmm...as I think about this, I'd probably need to change my cam too.

Uptown83...I can relate to loss of desire when gas mileage is so poor. I have experienced it that bad in teh distant past, when I had a 440 and 486gear in a 32 coupe. My 56 is getting 10, and if I take the blower belt off, it gets up to 14, usually in the 12.5-13.5 range on teh road. I'm hoping to improve that if I put injection on...but wonder if I'll be disappointed.

As I look at some of these costs, teh LS1 sounds better and better. Of course, that would be a pretty major retro fit for me.

Thats for a 427 kit the 350 Chevy kits are much cheaper

i have the hilborn 8stack for the 33 , it was 6k complete . i am not sure on performance or ease of set-up yet because i still dont have it done and running .

I am presuming I do want multipoint system, that does provide O2 sensors, and programmability.

But, does anyone know if there is any difference in performance, fuel efficiency or drivability between the various FI sets?

If not, and it boils down to looks, price and support then I can focus on those topics to find the solution I want to consider. I will say I don't think I want to spend over $4000. Above that, I'll lean toward doing the LS1 conversion.

Yes, there is a difference but it is relatively small. Theoretically, sequentical injection is the most precise. Most injection systems are non-sequential and use a crank trigger and fire the opposing injectors (both cylinders at TDC) at the same time. The sequential guys add a cam sensor and fire only the single injector. When you are trying to siphon the best mileage, lowest emissions, etc, these small things make a difference (also when you have an all-out race engine). For a street car, paying extra for the sequential injection is probably not justified but if it is free, do it. However, the extra sensor may be tough to add. If you do an LSx motor, there is a cam position sensor already there.

The major difference in your mileage will be the typical stuff like the cam, gearing, and the injector size and the controller setup (injector pulse width). If you have an injected race engine, it is still going to have crummy mileage. You might want to investigate this if your justification to switch to injection is based on fuel savings.....it may not pay for itself with just the gas mileage.

Tuned ports are pretty good at driveability but they historically dont run at high rpms since they were developed for street Camaros that relied on the low end to impress. Its not to say that you cant make one run high rpm but there would be aftermarket stuff involved.

Which look suits your car's theme? That may be the biggest influence on your choice. An older look might include either a RamJet (looking like an older Rochester) or a Hilborn stack setup while a high-tech look might include a stack injection or a swoopy tubular intake.

mike in tucson

Hi all,

New to the group. I also have been researching FI systems for a 350 and it seems that the Holly StealthRam gets fairly good ink at a couple of sites.

http://www.stealthram.com/ and also http://www.chevytalk.org/threads/pos.../0/Board/UBB12

Good luck with your hunt. I think the StealthRam will look and fit nicely in my 32 3 window. And just thinking does not cost a dime!!

Jigsaw
in Orange County CA.

The major difference in your mileage will be the typical stuff like the cam, gearing, and the injector size and the controller setup (injector pulse width). If you have an injected race engine, it is still going to have crummy mileage. You might want to investigate this if your justification to switch to injection is based on fuel savings.....it may not pay for itself with just the gas mileage.

Well, as that my cam was the one suggested to use with my Blower, I suspect I will need to change out the cam. I would ask whomever I purchase the FI from to suggest a cam for my interests.

While I want the engine to perform as good as it can, I'm sure I will be unimpressed compared to the blower. So, my goal is decent performance, but higher priorities will be driveablity (w/o having to tune a bunch of fuel stuff all the time); gas mileage; and looks...probably in that order.

If my gas mileage is not going to improve over my blower...then I'm not sure I want to make the change. I am assuming it well. I find that with my blower belt on, on the road, I get ~ 10mpg; with the belt off I get 12.5-14. I was hoping that the efficiency of the injection over a carb on top of a blower with no belt would offer yet another mile or two per gal, if not at least the same as no blower belt. Is any of that likely in your estimation?

For a free opinion, yes, the injection will improve your mileage as compared to a roots blower/carb/no belt......injection just wont make your car into a Prius (thankfully!). It will make your starting much easier, make most operation smoother, etc. If you change altitudes, the car will run correctly all the time; no more choke hassle at high altitude. Of course, your mileage may vary.......slightly higher in the mountains, etc.

mike in tucson

Originally Posted by jigsaw

Hi all,

New to the group. I also have been researching FI systems for a 350 and it seems that the Holly StealthRam gets fairly good ink at a couple of sites.

http://www.stealthram.com/ and also http://www.chevytalk.org/threads/pos.../0/Board/UBB12

Good luck with your hunt. I think the StealthRam will look and fit nicely in my 32 3 window. And just thinking does not cost a dime!!

Jigsaw
in Orange County CA.

if you have a 32 Ford with a 350 you need this kit
http://www.twminduction.com/v8_kits/chevy.html

hcar,

While it looks great and all. It appears you still need to part shop to get all the stuff. And then you need a bunch of tech support numbers as mentioned above someplace. I guess it never ends with Hot Rods. What fun! And thanks for the info anyway.

jigsaw

[QUOTE=jigsaw]Hi all,

New to the group. I also have been researching FI systems for a 350 and it seems that the Holly StealthRam gets fairly good ink at a couple of sites.

http://www.stealthram.com/ and also http://www.chevytalk.org/threads/pos.../0/Board/UBB12 /QUOTE]

Jigsaw

Somehow I missed your reply. Must have crossed each other posting.

I'll take a look.

Not sure about replacing the blower with FI. I am running the Commander 950 atop a 671 with two TBI units as I wanted to run it wet and I like the old school look with Velocity stacks. These Holly TBI's have 4 injectors each and drivability is very good. All in all I am very pleased with the system for an economical alternative.
Also the WWW.Chevytalk.org FI site is moderated by a Holly tech with all the answers I needed.

Techfan

You have any pics of that?

I had thought about putting a 950 on top of my B&M144. But, at this point, I'm also searching for improved mileage. While my thoughts are that if a person is going to have a car like this, you shouldn't let milage stop you from driving to the events...I get tired of stopping for gas every 120 miles.

Has anyone tried this site? http://www.massfloefi.com
I have no experience with them. I am in the process of researching it now.
Good luck,
Scott