Thread: Just Wondering

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can some one explain to me what the difference is between timed port and manifold vacuum? wich is better for my application?
350 chevy
stock
9.1 compression
voodoo 60103
600 elde
hei dist.
advance kit
2700 stall
350 turbo
342 gears
timing 20btdc
total 36

Looks Like Im Still Wondering, Nobody Wants To Post, That Sucks

I really don't know the exact difference either, but I think this is correct. On the front of a typical carb like an Edelbrock are two little vacuum ports. One has constant vacuum the entire time the engine is running. The other one only puts out vacuum as the engine accellerates, and is usually used to run a vacuum advance on a distributor. If you hook up the vacuum advance to the constant port it advances the dist too soon.

That may be way off base, and not answer your question, but at least maybe someone who knows will tell us the real answer.

Don

thanks for the info, i wanted to know because the differnce when i put the car in gear,seems the idle dont drop as much when its hooked to manifold vacuum,but i also created a ping at half throttle while driving that i never had before, curios

Manifold port vacume = vacume all the time
ported vacume = vacume port above throttle butterflys... vacume as throttle opens..

most vacume advances use ported vacume...

Timing @ 20 BTDC ????? doesn't sound right, usually around 8 -10 with vacume disconnected as a norm.
36 - 38 degrees total is normal........

I NO TIMING DONT SOUND RIGHT BUT THATS WERE IT HAS TOB TO GET 34 TOTAL sorry bout the cap locks, i took timing out and am about 12 btdc but cant get anywere near 34 help

Here's the tail-end of a timing article I did a while back.

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More about vacuum sources and timing.


What we’re dealing with here is in effect a variable venturi. At least it is as far as ported vacuum goes. The variable venturi bit due to throttle blade position.

I got curious about a comment I heard about manifold and ported vacuum going to zero at WOT (Wide Open Throttle) and ran a little experiment.

The car - 32 roadster - weighs 2400#, engine is an overbored 455 with 462 cid, 9/1 compression ratio, Edelbrock Performer intake, Carter 750 cfm competition carb with electric choke added later and a Crower Compu-Pro #1 cam which has about 262 & 266 degrees advertised duration intake and exhaust with 112 degree lobe centers. It’s a smooth cam and the car when warm idles @ 19" vacuum.
The dash carries a large (2 5/8") S-W vacuum gauge which compares favorably with the vacuum/pressure test gauge I have.

Advance is 8 degrees initial and all in at about 2600 rpm with a total of 32 degrees. Vacuum advance is about 16 degrees and sourced from Manifold Vacuum (MV).
The car runs very well on 87 octane in summer and winter and does not overheat in traffic.

Firing the car from dead cold and on the elec choke, MV reads 18-19" and idle is around 900-1000 rpm.
Ported Vacuum (PV) read 12" on startup.

Once the engine warmed up, MV reads 19" and PV reads zero at about 500-600 rpm.

Cruise at 40 mph with a light throttle setting on a flat road gives you 18.5 - 19" MV and just about the same on PV.
Rolling the throttle in about half way shows 8 - 10" of vacuum on both MV and PV during light acceleration.

Once at 60 mph MV read 18 - 18.5" vacuum (keep in mind this is a very light car) and PV read
10".

Flooring the throttle at 40 mph or 60 mph brought the MV down to 1" or so and PV to zero.

The key thing is, at idle with a fully warm engine, MV reads 18.5 - 19" and PV reads zero.

The lack of additional timing at idle is what creates an overheating problem in the GM engines.
It takes time to burn the lean idle mixture and additional advance is required to get the process underway early and avoid overheating.
Exactly the same thing (overheating) would happen with the timing severely retarded in an engine under load at a higher rpm level.

There’s a lot of confusion out there about timing, both centrifugal (mechanical) and vacuum as well as the vacuum sources to use.

The key thing is to realize they are two different systems that work together to give optimum spark advance for a particular condition and key on rpm as well as load.

To my way of thinking perhaps there would be less confusion if the vacuum advance cannister was called the vacuum retard cannister.

I’ve been amazed at the lengths some go to, to cure an overheating problem that can be solved in most cases simply by selecting the correct vacuum source.
Granted, most of my experience has been in cars with small engine bays and many times not the biggest radiator in the world, but I note, the bigger cars have the same amount of timing and overheating problems as the small car guys do and for some reason many car owners avoid doing something as simple as swapping vacuum sources to cure overheating and prefer to throw money at the problem.

As far as spinning up a little experiment, I’m not trying to prove anyone wrong here, just got curious, had some free time and those are the results I came up with.


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An additional note; for those of you who live at a higher altitude than where these tests took place, you’ll find that your vacuum levels at no-load (idle) rpms will read lower.
To the tune of a 1" vacuum loss for every 1000' of altitude.

The tests took place at 350' altitude and manifold vacuum at idle read 18.5".
After moving to Sunny Arizona and ending up at 3300' altitude the manifold vacuum now reads 15.5".
Highway figures and under load vacuum levels remain the same.

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This combined article was written from research on timing figures and real world experience.

i understand whats being said about the difference between the two vacuum sorces ,my problem is not running hot ,but pinging from what i think is to much advance too soon and were this cam should idle with no load