Thread: E85 VS. Premium fuel

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over here its $7.50 a gallon for 110 race gas out of the pump.....

Could be. Only 3 miles away. That's cool

E85 had 15% less gasoline in it and gets a minumum of 15% worse mileage so what's the big draw?

Draw, as in the public's desire fo it? It's good for power if fueled right for your engine is one. Enviromental issues is another. It's not our Saviour to the world but has inticing properties. No fuel mileage savings at the pump, but has potential for power for your rod. It's still not a "great" thing to switch over to because of it's inherent qualities. Still something to chew on for alternative sources of fuel. Remember the Government has subsidized a whole boat load of these development programs so you have to be a bit apprehensive of why and how and where, etc.

Originally Posted by Twitch

E85 had 15% less gasoline in it and gets a minumum of 15% worse mileage so what's the big draw?

It's largely symbolism that completely ignores substance (aka; feelgood). Here's some info; http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/...in709983.shtml
This article was written before the federal mandate for 10% ethanol blend across the country that has now artificially driven up the price of corn to where it's contributing to an increase in food costs for everyone in the country who eats. Oh, and even though the price of corn has increased the subsidies to large corn producers like Archer Daniels Midland continue.

Heres my take on it........its like walking into your kitchen right now and fixing a steak dinner for 30 people,probably not goin to have enuff steaks,now go into the kitchen and fix something different for the same people and you will have enuff.....
Gas and oil are soo exspensive because everyone and there brother uses it.
A few people on hydrogen a few on ethanol a few on e-85 a few on cooking oil a few on solar a few still on gas a few on electric....etc
Its much more fesable to be diverse in anything than it is to put all the eggs on one fuel source......not gunna happen imo.It will take multiple platforms to satiate the need for propulsion and keep it from affectin other areas.

I've been workin' on an alternative fuel source myself for years. Hear's where I'm at so far. I'm the guy with the scoop.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUXu6-watqM

I think you guys should at least try it before you start bad mouthing it. Personally I could care less about the economics. What I do know is that it is 103 octane which means more compression which means more horsepower.... We're now adding some pure ethanol to it, and have the octane kicked up to 107....and that's for $2.85 a gallon last month when we brewed up 300 gallons for drag racing both cars this summer. I can't solve the world economics issues, but it sure helps solve some of my economic issues!!!!!

As for the price of corn, if it was sold for what it costs to produce plus a reasonable profit and no subsidies, you couldn't afford to eat either.... Take your pick.... With no subsidies, no one could afford to grow it....

Originally Posted by DennyW

I'm talking every day, not just on race day. On race day, there is no price limit.

As for corn, I still get it really cheap from a friend farmer. As far as the other, yes, it would be to expensive, that's because the farmer doesn't own most of the land anymore, yours truely does. Big Al.

It still takes more e85 to do the same job, so I really don't see where it is better. An alternative maybe, but not better, at least not here yet. If it was, it would be half of the cost of the regular fuels.

Well, then you keep running gas, and I'll keep running E-85... The cost of fuel for racing is, at least for me, a large consideration... $2.85 a gallon for 300 gallons is a considerable savings over $7.00 a gallon for race fuel... I'm sure that little bit of money means nothing to some, but it sure does matter to me.

My shop truck runs on E-85. I filled it today for $2.91 a gallon. The price of unleaded at the same station is $3.44 a gallon. When I switched to E-85 I lost 2 mpg.... The price of converting it was some old jets out of the jet box and checking the timing. Guess I don't see where I'm losing money. Maybe all the educated folks understand it, but I sure as heck don't.....

For me, non of this is based on econmic studies that are published by whomever. It's based on what I run, both on the street and in racing. It works. I would be curious to see just how many folks here have even tried E-85. It performs great and allows higher compression on street engines. I guess I'm more concerned about performance aspects then it's effect on the global market. I mean, we are on a hot rod forum, right??? I would think performance would be the issue here.......

Originally Posted by DennyW

Dave, I'm not trying to say anything against what you do. If it works for you, great. Here, I can get race fuel, as I was told for 6.00 a gallon for the good stuff average. The unleaded here is 3.14 today. That is for most stations in this area. I can't store 300 gallons. Money spent always means something to me.

My point exactly....Even at $6.00 a gallon that's a lot more then $2.91 at the pump. The only reason we store 300 gallons is because we do some mixing to get the octane up even higher then the 103 it is out of the pump..... And I guess to be totally honest, the 300 gallons didn't cost me anything, a sponsor paid for. The sponsor is the South Dakota Corn Council. Now I suppose I'm a bad guy for being "subsidized" in our racing efforts?????

PS..... The toter will soon be on biodiesel.....Have fun with that one guys!!!!!

I don't have to store it for the shop truck, just fill it out of the pump!!!

I didn't wake up on the wrong side of the bed. Evertyime I bring up the fact that E-85 works good in PERFORMANCE engines, all I hear is the same ecomomic stuff about how I'm losing money.... I'm not. It's here, I run it, it works good, it saves me money. If it's not available everywhere that's not my fault.

I guess my final thing would be the old saying, "Don't knock it if you haven't tried it".

Originally Posted by DennyW

Ok, I'm not exactly knocking it. It's just the cost involved to change over, not just the jetting, and then the time to recoop the expense, it doesn't make sense to do it on my vehicle, since I put very few miles on it.

All I had to change was the jetting and timing.....I guess I'm not aware of the other changeover costs. The seals and gaskets have been alcohol compatible ever since 10% and 15% ethenol came out in the 80's. I only use about a tank of gas a month in the shop truck, the savings on today's fill up was $7.65....

Dave, we're not bad mouthing it.....we just simply respond to the average Joe that wants to save a buck at the pump.....I personally believe it can work for the street rod and racing....just not going to be the saviour to our woes.....sorry bud for the misgivings.

Originally Posted by Dave Severson

.........Evertyime I bring up the fact that E-85 works good in PERFORMANCE engines, all I hear is the same ecomomic stuff about how I'm losing money.... I'm not. It's here, I run it, it works good, it saves me money. If it's not available everywhere that's not my fault.

I guess my final thing would be the old saying, "Don't knock it if you haven't tried it".

Since I'm one of the leading "critics" of ethanol I guess I'll respond, since it appears you've missed my point which means there are very likely others who have as well.

Personally I don't have a problem with alchohol fuel in and of itself. Does it work? You bet! Look at Indy, Alcohol dragsters and FC, and so on. Good octane rating for performance engines? Oh yeah! If you bought your own corn at market price, made your own mash, boiled it up in your own still, I wouldn't say a thing...............not even to the revenuers! But every time this subject comes up it plays out to the false belief in the marketplace that ethanol is an economically viable fuel for the entire marketplace, which is an outright falsehood. Not only does the corn coucil sponsor you, every single one of us on here who pays taxes are your sponsors because we foot the bill for the subsidies. It's my belief that most people don't realize that they're paying one way AND another. And it must be important to them because every time the price of gasoline goes up the hot rod boards light up with whaling and moaning. The news providers go on the rampage. The oil companies are always the brunt of the blame, even though the real problem is the same politicians that are trying to foist off all the economically irrational alternatives, while killing the one, true, free market solution to our fuel issues. More supply.

I've said it before, and I'll say it til you shoot me because of it........................without surplus fuel in our ENTIRE system hot rodding, in fact any form of motor sport, is dead!! This is very much like the line of reasoning you advocate with the rat car builders who assemble crap cars. They will hurt the hobby, even though it's not their intention. And just as they show they are clueless about what you're trying to warn about, it's the same about the way we view gasoline and the supply of it to the marketplace. Just as taunting the safety nazis with ratty appearing cars is suicidal, trying to kill gasoline and the industry that supplies it is the same thing.

Almost all the farmers I've known in my life were an industrious, smart, inventive, entrpreneurial lot. Stubborn too. If subsidies didn't distort the market, they would eventually do the right thing. The products would find their correct price and the consumer wouldn't be double charged at both the cash register AND the tax form, which is what we have now. And honest market forces would control the level of pricing, not false demand implemented by government fiat.

As a hobby we sit back and look at everything as it affects us today, ignoring tomorrow. Yeah, ethanol is a good deal in your area, and you'd be a fool not to take advantage of it. But it's only as good a deal as it is because the rest of us are getting laid away, whether we realize it or not.

There will be good solutions in the future, and they won't be developed by the government or any proxy that they attempt to force to happen. It will come about the same way gasoline did just over 100 years ago............through the efforts of inventive, creative, entrepreneurs in the free market................................if they're allowed to.

I believe this to be the trigger point to make the change start happening in a hurry...................
http://www.jonhs.net/freemovies/oil_smoke_mirrors.htm