Thread: 455 Olds 11:1 -> 10:1

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First off, Jerry, that was eloquent. Kudos on a well-written post.

Wow Dallas, I'll have to give you one thing.....you are nothing if not WINDY !! Matter of fact, I think I'll have to award you the title of Grand Master of Windy. You've got the best line I've ever heard. The ability of a GMI graduate to run thoughts together like you do while lacking proper spelling and punctuation is priceless!!!

"Besides that i have run 10's with IRON HEADS and LESS than 11-1 comp on pmp gas with an olds engine in a big azz 4dr 84 98 regency and that was in the 80's nor was it a stroker engine and it retained all its amenities and accessories..How fast have u gone in anything Olds Powered that u may have built anytime in ur life, let alone thru mufflers on pmp gas in full dress street trim including tail pipes ?"

AWWW heck Dallas, I've done the same thing runnin' on a blend of orange juice and Dr. Pepper, using a rubber cam so that the grind got wilder as the revs increased.

"Addditionally to all that drag racing experience almost exclusively with GM BOP engined cars, I am a graduate of GMI, General Motors Institute with a Mechanical Engineering degree in AUTOMOTIVE APPLICATIONS. Tho i was trained as a machinist during my degree program, i farm that out when i build an engine, even then i specify specs not rely on the machinist to decide."

Yep, I can see you now, leaning into that machinist with your hands on your hips, lips pursed, scowl on your face like you knew it all and were gonna show this lowly machinist a thing or two.....Dallas, you are such a phony....HAHAHAHAHAHA...

"In fact for the past 22 years i have lived directly across the street from The Buick City assembly complex"

Cool, for the past 22 years I have lived directly across the street from the Y'all Crawl Back Saloon, diagonally across the street from Bob's Shoe Repair and Beauty Shop.

"Many of my best and closet friends are retired and or current BOP hourly workers and engineers and corporate types."

Many of my best and closest friends are retired as well, but we don't know or even claim to know any "corporate types". Sounds pretty corny to me.

"YOU may b older than me, and u may have even started drag racing in ur own rides that u actually wrenched and built before i did, but u adhere to a number of the unfounded wives tales common among racers who have only some experience, no formal education in the field of engineering as it applies to automotive applications as i have."

Geez Dallas, if what you have shown here is an example of a formal education, then I'll have to pass on that. Now, exactly what unfounded wive's tales are you referring to?

"like that crap about a thicker head gasket makin for more squish. it doesn't and in fact it can't."

Come on Dallas, if you let yourself relax and just think about this a little bit....squish is the distance from the piston crown to the underside of the cylinder head with the piston at TDC and includes the thickness of the head gasket. If you increase the thickness of the gasket, you MUST increase the squish. Even a 5th grader could see that.

"In any internal combustion engine the piston crown stops at some point in the cylinder at TDC. in the case of the Olds engines with flat top pistons, domed or dished that would b w/ said base surface of the piston crown .045 into the cyl. unless u change the crown height of the piston and or the rod lenth w/o changeing the wrist pin position, u can not increase the volume above that point without lowering mechanical compression which will also lower static cyl pressure or static compression as its called. the diff tween static and mechanical compression as u obviously do not comprehend is the pressure in the cyl at TDC when the engine is cold and NOT RUNNING and that when the engine is runnng at normal operatin temp, thas why same is CHECKED ONLY IN A HOT ENGINE."

Dallas, I'll have to give you a C- on this part. You have skirted all around the issue without actually identifying static compression ratio and dynamic compression ratio. Cold engine, hot engine has nothing to do with it. Static means at rest, not moving. The static compression ratio is calculated with 5 values and will not change at any time beyond when the motor is assembled with these values in place....
1. cylinder volume
2. combustion chamber volume
3. piston crown volume
4. piston deck volume
5. head gasket volume
Dynamic compression ratio, on the other hand, changes constantly as the motor is running and is highest at or close to the torque peak of the motor. Dynamic = variation in force or intensity.

"u simply can not increase the area in which the mixture is compressed without lowering the pressure w/o changing the position in the cyl at which the piston rests at TDC and BDC."

You continue to be confused about this Dallas. It's very sad. First off, it's not an area. It's a volume. Area is used in a two dimensional context. Secondly, you can change the volume by changing the block deck height or by changing the gasket thickness.

"a thicker head gasket increases this, the same as shaving the block deck or the head deck decreases it."

Good boy Dallas, you're starting to come around. I'm pleased.

"I am a person who imparts only information that i actually KNOW from BOTH experience and education"

Well Dallas, that seems to be where we have a problem, because I'm thinkin' that in your mind, you think you're correct. I've already commented on your education, so I won't bruise you any further with my thoughts on that.

"Otherwise, if u analgolize, in this case Olds engines to a rooster and i told u a rooster dips snuff, u could find a fresh tin of skoal under his left wing, copenhagen under its right."

WHOA, STOP THE PRESSES. What was that word? Analgolize?? Holy Moses, that must be a word you learned at the GMI.....You college fellows are mighty empressive, yes sir, mighty impressive.

"ur welcome to disgree with my assement on this subject, in fact i invite same, much of what i have discovered before and since school about this subject was born of someone disagreeing with me. However if u do so with such disrespect and antagonizm as u have u can expect same in return. in my vernaular, we call that playin the dozens, panning, capping, stinging on folk and i was better at that when i was a teenager than u'll b if ya live to b 200. In other words u got nothing coming on that tip. Better u remain respectful in whatever disagrement with me that u impart to me unless u enjoy gettin ur cap and or ur wig twisted with ur own BS rhetoric back in ur face. Thats in MY vernacular, in urs its likely ," unless u enjoy gettin laughed at and embarrassed"."

Disrespect and antagonism? Is that what you call it when someone corrects you? I don't know what kind of crowd you run with Dallas, but if you are going to come around here blowin' off, then you had better have your ducks in a row and know what you're talking about. It's kind of sad that you don't know you're the one being laughed at right now. You're just doin' this with tongue in cheek aren't you Dallas, come on, fess up, you're just havin' fun aren't you??

"MY moto, before ya claim something u think u know is fact, make it make sense, and ur premise of increaseing com chamber volume in any way w/o changeing the piston position at top dead center does not and can not make sense, nor can u logicall defend such a position."

OK, in one breath, you are saying you can't change chamber volume by changing the gasket. In the following statement, you're saying the exact opposite.

"As i said, the idea of useing a thicker head gasket to lower mechanical and by association static compression is a ploy which i have used for decades with total success. in fact before the advent of really hgh compressed thickness head gaskets i used 1st indian head and later COPPER COAT spray contact sealant from 3M to bond a number of thin sheet steel or copper head gaskets together to achieve my desired chamber volume and by association my final mechanical AND static compression ratio. The 406 SBC i now have in my WORK truck indeed has a set of 125.00 a piece composite head gaskets from Fel-Pro that u like as not didn't even know existed let alone someone offered, and THATS JOBBER NET PRICE."

Geez Dallas, I didn't even know those existed!!! Is that jobber net price???

"At the end of the day, keep this respectful and about the subject at hand rather than antagonistic and disrespectful when u post something to or about me. It isn't a gurantee, but 1st giving respect is the only way u can ever get any. YOU claim to B older and more experienced than myself in this field and u seem to want respect for that, which im more than willing to give ya, so long as with me u expect it with respect to me as u would have me do YOU.
The post that u made to which this is a reply is what folk like me consider to b playing, like i say, "playing the dozens"; unfortunately for that aim, I DO NOT PLAY, I never have, i jus like toys."

Playin'? No, I'm just trying to correct your erroneous thinking before someone on here takes you seriously. I couldn't give two hoots in hell for your respect and don't give two hoots in hell if you respect me. What I am concerned about is that some of your illogical thoughts will pervade the minds of onlookers here.

Again, I'm not sure whether you're just shinin' us on or whether you actually believe all the trash you lay out. Either way, I will continue to counter your illogical thoughts with the light of truth.
__________________
Dallas

Originally Posted by MrWizard455

BTW, the fellow Brent, who created this forum is a long time friend of mine and THATS who invited me here, Brent and i have raced with and against each other both on the street and at the track, check with him and u'l find that i KNOW what im ta;lkin about and I DO NOT TAKE SMACK off anyone bout anything anywhere anytime. Again, in my vernacular, "YOU BETTER ASK SOMEBODY" cause ya obviously ain't got a clue.

Well I am sure Brent would agree that there are forums that wouldn't tolerate thread jacking like this,(self promotion),let alone trashing members like Dave,Jerry,Richard,and before myself.If you have a point to prove,I suggest you do so based on fact and forget validating yourself.That is just a friendly suggestion by the way.

where u got all that from i have no idea, such as lowering compression with aluminum heads. becaue aluminum heads have a hgher heat dispation ratio than irons and heat contained in the combustion cycle for how long most determines static cyl pressure or static compression as u folk like to call it outside of mechanical compression ratio. It then follows that aluminum heads will yeild a diff staic cyl presure than would the same engine at the same mechanical compression ratio, one that would b LOWER.
As for the number and types of cars i have had, i have owned in Just hot rods to name a few, now 5 2cnd gen Trans Ams, 2 442's and 5 Cutlasses powered by Olds V8 engines of all sizes, 10 GTOs, 3 catalina 2+2s, 3 Model SJ Grand Prixs, 2 DZ 302 69 Z28s 1 with the service package 5 option package the other with the service pack 6 option package. Presently i own 4 cars a motorcycle and a pic up truck, down from a total of 10 vehicles a couple years ago, including 3 motorcycles. I have also owned both Mopar and Ford hot rods, 1 RR, 1 GTX, 1 Sport Satelite among the former, a stang and a 65 390 4 gear galaxie, a number of pintos including a V8 conversion tha i built.
As for the comment about using the tires off my Bmer on my Lesabre ... that was a comment to make clear that i actually HAVE an OLDS powered car tha is in street trim with all its amenities and it runs respectable times with an iron headed small block Olds V8 on street tires and even better on ET streets.
All this in response to the ridicule and antagonistic response tyo the 1st post on the subject, which was meant to enlighten the questioner not elicit disrepect from the other commenters.
As for my educational and automotive experiences, that too was to make sure its understood that im speakin what I KNOW than what i thought or think. Again all in response to the disrespectful responses from other commenters about the 1st post.
AND the original post was entirely on point, as well as included comment to insure tha it was understood that i KNOW what im talkin about, not just think i do.
Like i say folk, i have no problem with folk disagreein with me but i do not respond kindly to disrespect of any kind from anyone, such as the name callin n other childish smack contained in the response to the 1st post. respond to me as a respectful adult and i will respond to YOU in kind, other than that it is what it is in my response and whatever ya wanna do about it, bring it.

LOL Tech, now that i can go along with, as i say, im not havin any issue with folk in disagreement with me, jusd the tenor of said disagreement in an obviously disrespectful manner.
i can take and dish out friendly teasin as well as the next person.
As far the so called lon windedness of my posts, that is a function of being sure that even the most uneducated on the subject of discussion can b sure to catch the gist of the post. That all out of respect to the fact that some of us are far less adept in the subject than others and such clarification is for their benifit.

As I said before if you're from the St.Louis area then Fujimo should ring a bell.

Originally Posted by MrWizard455

LOL Tech, now that i can go along with, as i say, im not havin any issue with folk in disagreement with me, jusd the tenor of said disagreement in an obviously disrespectful manner.
i can take and dish out friendly teasin as well as the next person.
As far the so called lon windedness of my posts, that is a function of being sure that even the most uneducated on the subject of discussion can b sure to catch the gist of the post. That all out of respect to the fact that some of us are far less adept in the subject than others and such clarification is for their benifit.

Wizard-you didn't get the point,for whatever good you are posting,you kill it with all the unnecessary baggage you are posting.Please man,stay on topic.Why do you care soooooooooo much about what anyone else thinks??.Just the facts is all that is needed.

Huh?? What's with all the respect bs, anyway???? Sounds like the gangster crap on TV, "gonna shoot ya for not respecting me...."

You know Dallas, I used to DATE a redheaded schoolteacher who kept making me do it again and again until I got it right. I think that's the course we will have to follow here. Let's continue....I have all night....

"where u got all that from i have no idea, such as lowering compression with aluminum heads."

Who said anything about that?? Where did that come from??

"becaue aluminum heads have a hgher heat dispation ratio than irons and heat contained in the combustion cycle for how long most determines static cyl pressure or static compression as u folk like to call it outside of mechanical compression ratio."

BZZZZZZZZZTTT. Wrong. Dallas, let's try to stick to the principles involved and tag them properly. You have static compression ratio, which is a purely mathematical function where you add up all the volumes drawn into the cylinder when the piston descends in the bore and then divide that figure by the total volume with the piston at TDC. That is a STATIC figure. It will not change one iota after the motor is built. It is normally referred to as SCR to prevent spelling it out. Dynamic compression ratio, on the other hand, is a constantly changing pressure. You can figure it mathematically, but your product will be only an average of the actual moving DCR. It is figured using SCR, rod length, stroke and the intake closing point of the intake lobe of the camshaft.

"It then follows that aluminum heads will yeild a diff staic cyl presure than would the same engine at the same mechanical compression ratio, one that would b LOWER."

BZZZZZZZZT. Wrong again. Come on Dallas, pay attention. Static compression ratio and mechanical compression ratio are the same thing. Both are a mathematical value and mean nothing in respect to the dynamic compression ratio that is a result of the motor running. The only way aluminum heads are going to yield a different static (or mechanical) compression ratio is if the combustion chamber is smaller or larger than the chamber in an iron head that you are comparing to.

"As for the number and types of cars i have had, i have owned in Just hot rods to name a few, now 5 2cnd gen Trans Ams, 2 442's and 5 Cutlasses powered by Olds V8 engines of all sizes, 10 GTOs, 3 catalina 2+2s, 3 Model SJ Grand Prixs, 2 DZ 302 69 Z28s 1 with the service package 5 option package the other with the service pack 6 option package. Presently i own 4 cars a motorcycle and a pic up truck, down from a total of 10 vehicles a couple years ago, including 3 motorcycles. I have also owned both Mopar and Ford hot rods, 1 RR, 1 GTX, 1 Sport Satelite among the former, a stang and a 65 390 4 gear galaxie, a number of pintos including a V8 conversion tha i built."

Personally, I don't care how many cars you have owned. That doesn't make you any smarter or able to debate any more intelligently and it certainly didn't do anything for your composition, punctuation or spelling. Furthermore, it did little or nothing in the way of convincing me that you have any idea what you're talking about.

"As for my educational and automotive experiences, that too was to make sure its understood that im speakin what I KNOW than what i thought or think. Again all in response to the disrespectful responses from other commenters about the 1st post.
AND the original post was entirely on point, as well as included comment to insure tha it was understood that i KNOW what im talkin about, not just think i do."

Dallas, you don't know how it pains me to have to tell you that you don't have a clue. I'm sure you have built motors in the past and they have performed admirably, but believe me, it wasn't because you know any of the basics of what makes a motor work. I saw a fortune-telling hen at the boardwalk once, but I don't think she knew anything about what she was doing either.

Dallas, you're the aluminum head guy, why don't you field this one....

Oh, and by the way Louey, it's common courtesy when quoting someone that you put the verbage in quotes and give credit to the author.

I had to run out for more butter.........did I miss anything?



Don

Guys,

Let's keep this one on topic. You want to argue about this and that, take it to PM and leave the threads to the topic at hand.


Also, personal attacks will not be tolerated, no matter who you know, or who you think you know



Enough said.

Dallas

I want to offer an opolgy but only on the following understanding----

In my main money making career, it was part of SOP to critique every critical operation in order to discuss what went right, what went wrong and how to make it better---most times it was well accepted because it wasn't criticism, but critique---we were all professionals and well qualified or we wouldn't of had the positions we did. Those qualifications included level of education, and many years of experiance/training/checks, etc including 3 physicals a year.

I enjoy helping people who are brave enough to come on here and post asking for help, I respect the time and effort the people spend looking up info from some very detailed sources and explaining it. The level of experiance that the main group of technical posters have is deep, including yours.

But----your posts come across sort of like the government health bill---thousands of pages that nobody reads or understands--your spelling/typing makes them look like they are in a foreign langage---your interjection of your 43 cars plus pintos( sorry, I thought you only had 17) confuses me as to the relavance of the post, your street racing comments upset me, and your strip racing experiances are of such a low caliber I would personally be imbarassed in mention them---

My thoughts are that if you would simplfy your rambling replies and post your position instead of posting a congressional bill with all the ear marks in it, your posts would be better understood(by me at least) and your presence here would be better accepted.

Jerry Clayton

And with that eloquent, well thought out, and written post, this thread is now closed.