Thread: Need our engine experts to help me out.

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hones with stones are going to cut.... i hold my bore s under .0005 from top to bottom of bore if gone you can not put it back . all bolts are TQ up to pull on block so you have a nice around hole.main cap can pull on the bores .not just head bolts. the block can heat soak and bores will move . machine can not stop this if the guy running is out for lunch. fords bores on stock blocks can do this. so you need to take your time.....on the KB s forged piston s if you have them can go from street use 003.5 to all the way to 007.0 . i ask what the customer going to do with the engine ? i have done smaller and big bore hi HP turbo/blowers .Nos and track cars .were i will put the piston to wall to max . were on street i set them at smaller size .this will let you hone it before you need a new bore and pistons. and do not bang around .if he was thinking that you were building a hi HP race engine he may have opened them waaaaaaaaaayyy up then there going to bang to its warm and may never stop if a hi silicon aluminum . so as the guy boring and honing a block you need to know what you have for pistons .Hyper pistons can not be put in loose they will never stop banging as for there size will not move much as like some of the 2618 alloy. hi silicon alloy75/4032 that can see less piston to wall .I can fix this using your new/ old pistons and your old block done it many times . custom piston can be made is well in .002 or 005 just about any size . i would think about buy a new shelf set of pistons and moving the bore the next size up would be cheaper

Those are good ideas about getting bigger pistons and using this block if need be. Last night Don, Dan, and I worked on Dons T bucket, changing his front end around, and I got another look at the walls of my block. It really isn't as bad as I thought, now that I have calmed down a little. The scuffing is very minor in the 6 and 12 positions. More and more I am leaning toward one of two things making the noise:
1) That fuel pump eccentric looks a little out of round to me, and loose.

2) I made a modification to the harmonic balancer that may have let it be slightly loose on the crank. I went to a Ford Racing short water pump assembly that picks up 1.5 inches of room in the front of the engine, however, Ford Racing has discontinued some of the parts needed to complete the swap. I was able to find a new timing cover and water pump, but the V belt pulleys are now almost impossible to find. So, I bought a set of Zoops billet aluminum pulleys, but because I am using a Ford Racing harmonic balancer the crank pulley sits back 3/16 of an inch too far to line up with the water pump pulley.

I bought a 3/16 spacer from Zoops, but it didn't register correctly on the balancer, and the pulley wobbled. I came up with the idea that if we could space the balancer 3/16 out from where it was it would line up. Dan and I cut 3/16 off of the end of another balancer and ground it totally concentric. I slipped this in first, then put the balancer on. The pulleys now lined up, but I am wondering if moving the balancer out 3/16 upset something.

The keyway on the crank looks very slightly rounded on the front and I see two marks on the opposite side of the snout from the keyway that looks like something was wobbling around. I am going to put the balancer back as designed and have Zoops machine me a proper spacer that registers on this balancer, to eliminate that problem. I don't know if this might have been causing any problem, but I didn't care for the jury rigged setup I had.

Here are a few pictures of some of the cylinders. If you look closely you can see the scuffing at the 6 oclock positon.

Thanks guys for the ideas.

Don

No, I'm dropping the block and pistons off at an engine builders shop today so he can do that and also polish the bottoms of the bores like Pat described.

I'm not real happy with my machinist right now. He is a Ford guy too, and has 3 SOHC Ford engines (one in a Cobra......a REAL Cobra) plus some Panteras and Shelbys and a GT40 (circa 1966). He should have done more to prep this block IMO.

Don

Don. Was the block bored with a deck plate installed?

Originally Posted by deuce4papa

Don. Was the block bored with a deck plate installed?

Supposedly.

Don

not good looks like junk got up under the skirt. TQ plates are nice but that s not from using one or not they get out of shap most of the time in the upper top1/2 of the bores were the rings see most of it.not on the lower skirts .i but i do not think thats is it? it s just the piston stoping were there junk under the skirts??? and some trigger. lower parts is from the mains not on or TQ up. or tapper from heat of honeing is there is some piston to wall? if not you can get this has well as the skirts grab the walls of the bore but you would see more marks . need to check were the bores are at as for a wavey bore god i hope not his boring /honing machines wound have to be beat to hell and he would have to be blind not to read the bore gauge. really hard to say i can not say i can not get my bore gauge thru the screen

Jeezzzzz Don. Looks like this is giving you all sorts of issues. I'm sure you'll get it ironed out.

REGS

Just a little update on where I am with this engine. The block turned out to be perfectly bored 30 over. Piston to wall clearance is right within Keith Black specs too........they want between 2.5 thousandths and 3.5 thousandths clearance, and mine all are right at 3.0 thousandths. I temporarily reinstalled the crank and spun it with the pan on so I could see if I had any interference issues, none whatsoever. Everything clears by a mile. Same with crank to bottom of cylinders.

So, I simply used a flap wheel, as Pat suggested, and smoothed off the jagged edge at the bottom of each cylinder, then ran a hone very lightly down each bore to simply scuff the walls. Then I scrubbed the block very well to remove any metal shavings, and started to reassemble it. I did find one expander on one oil ring that was pinched slightly, so I removed and redid that one.

The engine is back to short block status and I just have to pick up some final gaskets do I can finish making it into a complete engine. I'm replacing the steel pilot bearing with a Ford Racing roller bearing one because I did see some slight denting on the face of the old one. Maybe I did that when I inserted the transmission into it. It wasn't bad, but while I was in there.......

By next weekend I should have the engine back in and ready to fire up. Plan is to start it, if it still makes noise I am going to ignore it and let the engine warm up to see if it goes away, as Scat and Keith Black techs say it should. I feel more confident now that I have rechecked everything that there should be nothing really "knocking" that would send a piston through the block............at least I hope so.

Oh, I also found out Ford Racing makes the correct spacer I need to move my crank pulley out so I will be able to bolt the harmonic balancer on the way it was designed. I ordered one of those and it should be in by Tuesday.

Thanks to everyone who contributed suggestions and help. It is much appreciated guys.

Don

Good to hear you'll be able to keep the block. Don't forget to video the start up. If it makes the noise you can post it here and take it to the engine shop for advice! Plus it's just cool to watch! Keep us updated Don.

Thanks Steve. Yep, I'll do the YouTube thing for sure. The more I think about it the more I feel the fuel pump eccentric might have been a contributor. I left the ring part of the eccentric off this time and am going to run an electric pump, like I always did before. I like the instant priming thing of an electric one ,plus, the mechanical pump presented some hose routing issues with my 2 x 4 setup. I run a fuel block on the firewall and I would have had to run the hose clear back from the pump to the firewall. With the electric pump it's a straight shot from the back of the car to the firewall.

If it's noisy this time I'll just uncap the headers.

Don

Ah ...... the sweat sound of success!! (we hope).

Keep us informed on the tube!

REGS