Thread: Question for our engine experts.

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New seal arrived from Summit today and it is totally different from the one that comes in the normal FelPro overhaul kit. This one is called their Performance Line, and it is so much better made than the stock ones. There is a big rubber ring around the outside, and it says the seal is made from PTFE material. The biggest difference though is that this one comes with that little plastic installation ring that you first slide over the crank and then slide the seal over the smooth plastic, instead of having to force it over the metal journal.

I lubed the first two seals to make sure they would go over easily, but still had to force them a little. I wondered why they didn't have that plastic insertion tool with them, but they didn't. I may have damaged the lip installing them. I have a good feeling about this seal, I think if I clean up the journal really good and use this seal my leak should go away.

Here is a picture of the new seal, anyone building any sbf may want to order this seal just because. It is about $ 45, but oil leaks are a pain in the butt and can ruin an expensive clutch setup. (My helper Chewy had to investigate it to make sure it wasn't something good to eat He and Lucky love it when the UPS guy comes, boxes to play in)

Don

yep you may have cut the lip i start the lip at a shallow angle then push up on the part of the seal that s past the edge of the crank then turn the seal it a wee bit . should go on but the helper from felpro nice when they come with the seal . i lube then very good with oil has well

Hope this takes care of your problem

Pat, that is my guess too. I don't know why every seal like this doesn't come with that tool. I am going to throw it in my tool box and keep it for the next one I do, in case it doesn't come with one. And you bet I am going to lube this one up REAL good.

Charlie, I have a good feeling this one will fix it.

Don

Here is what is printed on this new seal:

Today I decided to start working on my sbf and get it back together. I dropped the pan, removed the rear main cap, and after some clean up of the rear crank journal (with 320 grit paper ........thanks for the idea, Pat) I lubed and installed the new seal.

After retorquing the rear cap I was ready to reinstall the oil pan. That is when I got a real shock! Laying in the bottom of the oil pan was an oil galley plug! I knew it wasn't the one that blew out a few months ago because that one was mangled from the timing chain or something smashing it, and I removed that one back then . At that time I tapped threads in that hole so I could use a screw in galley plug, but I left the other two metal galley plugs just straked in their holes because they looked ok and I didn't want to make too many shavings from more thread tapping.

I pulled the timing cover and timing chain and sure enough, one of the two remaining galley plugs was gone. How long it has been out I have no idea, but it was the one that is on the drivers side lifter galley. Then it all started to make sense that my engine was ticking so bad, the lifters on that bank were getting little or no oil! I also noticed in Daytona that my oil pressure had dropped from it's usual 60 psi to about 30 or so, although it would climb when I accelerated.

There doesn't appear to be any damage to anything that I can see, the cam lobes and roller lifters look ok. I have now tapped threads into those two remaining holes and tomorrow will pick up 1/4 inch galley plugs and do what I should have done in the beginning. I will NEVER build another engine with straked in galley plugs and will only use screw ins from now on.

Has anyone seen this happen before where two plugs blew out the same way? Here is a picture of the galley plug that came out. It was totally undamaged, so evidently no moving parts hit it once it came loose.

Don

Always used screw in plugs lucky find

them steel plugs i put in blocks for stock/mild i use them all the time but i put them in with a driver and use 620 lock tie and stake them moving block metal over with a chisel that i ground with a small flat on the end of it . on pipe plugs just watch they do not screw to far and shut of a oilling galley . you have to modify the 1/4 npt plug .fords use a shorter pipe plug so watch that the do not hold up the cam hold down plate .the last ford i did the hold down cam plate blocks the plugs other then the one set in the block looks like he did not put them in deep enough you stake over the plug to block not stake the plug to block they will fell out thats basic machine shop 101 from most of the machine work i seen in your neck of the woods sucks. please send no hate mail

Charlie, yep, it sure was a shocker and I couldn't believe what I was seeing in the pan.

Pat, those are my feelings too, that they didn't strake them in properly. When the first one came out my machinist guy said "It probably spiked oil pressure and blew it out". We were watching the oil pressure gauge and it ran no higher than 65 lbs, my 350 Chevy ran at 70 lbs going down the expressway and never blew out a plug. He showed me the straking tool they use and explained how the process works (I had never heard the term "strake" until that day)

These were not installed deep at all, just flush with the block surface, and as you can see by the 4 marks, the straking wasn't very deep. I couldn't agree more with you regarding the machine work in this area. I've been using this same guy for 25 years and he has generally been the best in the area, but he lets his guys do lots of the work, and the talk around town is that if he personally does the work it is better than if one of the others in the shop does it.

I'll also make sure the new plugs don't block any ports, as you suggested. What do you think about that side of lifters getting reduced oil flow.........could that have been the noise I've been getting?

Don

Originally Posted by Itoldyouso

Charlie, yep, it sure was a shocker and I couldn't believe what I was seeing in the pan.

Pat, those are my feelings too, that they didn't strake them in properly. When the first one came out my machinist guy said "It probably spiked oil pressure and blew it out". We were watching the oil pressure gauge and it ran no higher than 65 lbs, my 350 Chevy ran at 70 lbs going down the expressway and never blew out a plug. He showed me the straking tool they use and explained how the process works (I had never heard the term "strake" until that day)

These were not installed deep at all, just flush with the block surface, and as you can see by the 4 marks, the straking wasn't very deep. I couldn't agree more with you regarding the machine work in this area. I've been using this same guy for 25 years and he has generally been the best in the area, but he lets his guys do lots of the work, and the talk around town is that if he personally does the work it is better than if one of the others in the shop does it.

I'll also make sure the new plugs don't block any ports, as you suggested. What do you think about that side of lifters getting reduced oil flow.........could that have been the noise I've been getting?

Don

I must admit that plug doesn't look like its been installed properley Don, I prefer screw in NPT plugs with thread lock, never had one come out yet
If you do use them plugs they should be slightly below the surface of the hole, then staked.

I would think the lifters were causing the noise almost certainly.

They weren't that deep, Steve, just flush with the outside. I didn't have much trouble removing the one remaining plug, I simply drilled a hole in the center and made a quick puller out of a self tapping screw and a socket. It came out VERY easily. I just called NAPA and they are out of galley plugs and are the only game in town here on the weekend, so I guess I will have to work on the rpu today. My 34 axle showed up so I can maybe drill some holes in it or just pester Dan at the shop all day. He's deep in thought wiring his car and just LOVES it when I keep talking to him.

Don

Originally Posted by 1923hotrod

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Originally Posted by Itoldyouso

They weren't that deep, Steve, just flush with the outside. I didn't have much trouble removing the one remaining plug, I simply drilled a hole in the center and made a quick puller out of a self tapping screw and a socket. It came out VERY easily. I just called NAPA and they are out of galley plugs and are the only game in town here on the weekend, so I guess I will have to work on the rpu today. My 34 axle showed up so I can maybe drill some holes in it or just pester Dan at the shop all day. He's deep in thought wiring his car and just LOVES it when I keep talking to him.

Don

Yeah i bet he just loves being interrupted

you really should not see that heavy of stake marks on the plug . should see metal moved up on the hole around the plug not much on plug when done right .after you knock them out if done right you will see hi spots were they were stake in yep pipe plugs are great but some time you just can not use them chevy and ford use a steel ball to them work good. the thing is that they work fine if you know what your doing. yep that plug out is going to dry up the lifters a bit . good thing you seen this

Originally Posted by roadster32

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I reported him, Steve. Should be gone soon.


Pat, I saw something tonight I had never noticed before. All of the motors laying in the shop have screw in galley plugs from the factory in the bellhousing area, but the other kind in the timing chain area. I guess the thinking is if one of the ones in the bellhousing were to blow you would have to pull the engine to fix it. Or maybe there is some other reason.

At least I got the engine all buttoned up today. I put screw in plugs in those two final holes and put the rest of the engine back together. Just have some accessories and pulleys to install, plus the clutch and transmission, before I can put it back in the car. I took the lifter adjustment down 1/2 turn and then an additional 1/8th turn, just to see if that will quiet things down a little.

I also installed a new pair of valve covers that my Son Don just bought me. These are 2 inches lower than the Edelbrocks I was running, but still clear my roller rockers (Don has the same pair on his T with roller rockers and they clear that one fine) The 2 inch difference will allow me to remove them to adjust the valves in the future, instead of having to pull the engine like with the other set. This week I am going to keep putting the motor together and hopefully by the weekend have it in and running again.

Here is the motor as I left it tonight.

Don

roller rocker engines can have more valve train noise .why they use tin metal plugs is there cheap