Thread: Give me some input for my wacky idea please.

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Thanks for the input guys. I apprecieate the good and bad feed back. Right now the car is sitting in the barn with the engine and trans removed. I just have to put pen to paper and figure out which route I can go and get the car back running before June. I don't want it to be a torn apart project that takes 8 years to finish. I have plenty of those already. LOL

I think i would go with the Hemi engine. If just for the looks and the resale value. The Hemi will look bad ass in a 40 Ford. Would like to find a old Hemi engine for mine.

My comment about spinning the tires was about the added traction you get with the weight--------as in a joke!!!!!!

Two other thoughts for you---- The Oldsmobile diesel from back 80s? or possibly the new hemi----performance, milage, the look and sound with either of them ----

I’m not going to stay out of which engine to use, but I will give you an alternative for a transmission and transmission adaptor.

Use an A833 overdrive 4 speed transmission and build your own adaptor.

The A833 Overdrive 4 speeds were installed in Chrysler product cars and Dodge trucks and vans from the late 70s thru the 80s. The early ones used a cast iron case, while the later ones had an aluminium case (avoid the aluminium case ones as the cases tend to crack. The A833 OD is based on the regular A833 transmission (that saw duty in such things as the 440 6 pac and Hemi cars) and will definitely stand up to some abuse. They are not as sought after as a lot of other transmissions so the buy in is usually not that bad.

Building an adaptor for one of these is pretty simple. You need the thin 3/4" adaptor plate that was used between the Hemi and Poly engines in the late 50’s. Just cut the lower legs off. You will need a flywheel, either an early Hemi flywheel (8 bolt) or a 6 bolt Poly flywheel can be used. Turn the flywheel down to the diameter of the later SB Mopar flywheel and install a SB mopar130 tooth ring gear. You’ll need a small block Mopar bellhousing preferably with the large bearing retainer hole and you’re all set. It takes a standard Chrysler started (with a 1/8” spacer).

On the Hemi you do need to check and make sure it’s already drilled for a pilot bearing (cranks used in front automatic transmissions generally weren’t).

Now the fun part, you can run some reasonably deep gears and still get good mileage and low highway RPM.

I’m running a Tri-Power 354 Hemi in my 57 Plymouth with a cast iron A833 OD and 4.10 gears (the OD drops the effective ratio to 3.00). It gets 20 MPG at 75 MPH with the AC on and I’m not a bit afraid to hammer it.


I discussed some adaptors in some old Hemi posts I did several years ago that might help.

General Hemi Info part 3
Just some food for thought.

Originally Posted by Mike P

I’m not going to stay out of which engine to use, but I will give you an alternative for a transmission and transmission adaptor.

Use an A833 overdrive 4 speed transmission and build your own adaptor.

The A833 Overdrive 4 speeds were installed in Chrysler product cars and Dodge trucks and vans from the late 70s thru the 80s. The early ones used a cast iron case, while the later ones had an aluminium case (avoid the aluminium case ones as the cases tend to crack. The A833 OD is based on the regular A833 transmission (that saw duty in such things as the 440 6 pac and Hemi cars) and will definitely stand up to some abuse. They are not as sought after as a lot of other transmissions so the buy in is usually not that bad.

Building an adaptor for one of these is pretty simple. You need the thin 3/4" adaptor plate that was used between the Hemi and Poly engines in the late 50’s. Just cut the lower legs off. You will need a flywheel, either an early Hemi flywheel (8 bolt) or a 6 bolt Poly flywheel can be used. Turn the flywheel down to the diameter of the later SB Mopar flywheel and install a SB mopar130 tooth ring gear. You’ll need a small block Mopar bellhousing preferably with the large bearing retainer hole and you’re all set. It takes a standard Chrysler started (with a 1/8” spacer).

On the Hemi you do need to check and make sure it’s already drilled for a pilot bearing (cranks used in front automatic transmissions generally weren’t).

Now the fun part, you can run some reasonably deep gears and still get good mileage and low highway RPM.

I’m running a Tri-Power 354 Hemi in my 57 Plymouth with a cast iron A833 OD and 4.10 gears (the OD drops the effective ratio to 3.00). It gets 20 MPG at 75 MPH with the AC on and I’m not a bit afraid to hammer it.


I discussed some adaptors in some old Hemi posts I did several years ago that might help.

General Hemi Info part 3
Just some food for thought.

Mike, thanks for the info! That definitely helps out a lot! Let me ask you this about the Hemi. Right now it has 73,000 miles on it. I got it running and it runs good and doesn't smoke at all. Do I need to worry about the heads as in the valves and seats since we have no lead in gas these days? Will this thing have enough power with a holley and or a AFB or similar on a stock 4bl intake and cam? It's rated at 280hp but who knows it it still does that this many lears later. I was planning on an intake and cam swap, but I'm not sure if it wouldn't be more beneficial to just rebuild it. If I'm going to do that I don't know if I can swing it this year. LOL

In the early hot rod era, Hemi's were the engine to have in a 40. You are correct in that it is about 200 lbs heavier than the SBC you have in it. If you have a Mustang II setup in excellent condition, you can play with the springs and it will work. Be sure and check your welds and such on the Mustang II, many are made out of a light weight material and are cracking under normal usage. If you need to replace it, do so with a FatMan product. His front ends are made from a thicker gauge material than the others, yet his prices are very good. Now, a stock 354 with only a carb change, that will not run like the 350 you have in the car - more like a good running 283. Horsepower ratings back then were at the flywheel with no acc's attached and some were fudged a bit. To make the hemi a sweet motor, you will have to rebuild and do standard hot rodding mods. Resale value, much better with hemi, just a bit less with 350, less with Cummings. Transmission for hemi -good advice from Mike P, if you want cheaper, you can adapt an old torqueflight to it - could be bullet proof.
Good luck with your choices and be sure to post and let us all know. Ray

Originally Posted by jerry clayton

My comment about spinning the tires was about the added traction you get with the weight--------as in a joke!!!!!!

Two other thoughts for you---- The Oldsmobile diesel from back 80s? or possibly the new hemi----performance, milage, the look and sound with either of them ----

Ok LOL Heck no on the 5.7 diesel. I'd like some power. Those things don't last. No on the new hemi either, mainly because I already have the 354.

Originally Posted by Scooting

In the early hot rod era, Hemi's were the engine to have in a 40. You are correct in that it is about 200 lbs heavier than the SBC you have in it. If you have a Mustang II setup in excellent condition, you can play with the springs and it will work. Be sure and check your welds and such on the Mustang II, many are made out of a light weight material and are cracking under normal usage. If you need to replace it, do so with a FatMan product. His front ends are made from a thicker gauge material than the others, yet his prices are very good. Now, a stock 354 with only a carb change, that will not run like the 350 you have in the car - more like a good running 283. Horsepower ratings back then were at the flywheel with no acc's attached and some were fudged a bit. To make the hemi a sweet motor, you will have to rebuild and do standard hot rodding mods. Resale value, much better with hemi, just a bit less with 350, less with Cummings. Transmission for hemi -good advice from Mike P, if you want cheaper, you can adapt an old torqueflight to it - could be bullet proof.
Good luck with your choices and be sure to post and let us all know. Ray

Thanks for the input. I plan on replacing the stock MII cross member with a Fat Man cross member already. There's a list of things the car needs to make it right. I'd like to add a/c too since I have 2 little, little kids. So I don't know how far the money tree will reach out to this car. I have to watch it basically. LOL

As far as the engine goes, I wouldn’t worry about the heads, the early HEMIs came with pressed in, replaceable exhaust seats. I’m told they might not be as hard as the current replacement seats, but they are definitely hard enough to prevent problems associated with running unleaded fuel.

At 73K on the motor and not smoking I would look at the following.

First would be oil pressure (when hot), if that’s good you probably can get by with the motor pretty much as is but there are a couple more things I would recommend. One is to look for sludge build up (in the 50-early 60s non detergent oil combined with a road draft tube ventilation could lead to an engine that has a lot of crud build up) and address that problem if it exists. As designed the HEMIs also used a By Pass type filter system. I would recommend the By Pass valve be removed and the replaced with the plug Hot Hemi Heads sells (requires rear main cap removal) and possibly also change over to a spin on filter at the same time. If you decide to change oil pumps while you’re in there I would recommend avoiding the HV Hot Hemi heads unit which I have been hearing has had some major problems with the shafts breaking (they basically use a HV 340 oil pump with a custom shaft). If you can find a stock 392 oil pump it will flow within 3% of the HV 340 unit, but may require a custom pickup depending on the pan you’re using. On a final note on the Oil system, most of the old timers recommend using a fairly heavy oil (20-50) due to the clearances of these older engines. If you go with the heavier oil, plan on giving it a little warm up time when starting the engine cold.

As far as power, the big thing that really hurts the early HEMI is the lack of compression, but comparing the power output of even a stock 354 to “a good running 283” is a little on the light side.......it’s a bit closer to a good running low compression 350, but with a weight penalty. Couple that with a set of 4.10s and a OD 4 speed and even in stock form it will still be a fun ride.

Here are the links to the HEMI threads I did several years ago you might find of use.

General Hemi Info Part 1

General Hemi Info Part 2
General Hemi Info part 3

General Hemi info part 4

General Hemi Info Part 5

Thanks for the links! I read through them all and some things are more clear. Now that you've showed me ways to save money I may just rebuild the engine now and not wait.I think I'll take the pan off and the valve covers and see what it really looks like inside first.

One other thing, on the engine adapter you have in the 3rd thread, basically whack off the bottom pieces and the starter will bolt to the 4 speed bell housing. Right? Any good sources for the bell housing? Thanks again for the help.

also---i don't believe that the hemi is 200 lbs heavier than a sbc

SBC 460/575# depending on year and heads (More than I thought) Hemi 729/745 A lot more than I thought BBC 675# Olds diesel 590#

I don't think the early hemi weights that much

675# 50s Desoto hemi

I just weighed bbc iron head at 63 lbs and 392 head at 69 lbs---I'm pretty sure hemi 392 block is lighter than the bbc altho I can't find my notes on block weights--crankshafts pretty much with 2 or 3 lbs and if your talking 454 bbc the dampner/flywheel are much heavier---rods will be within a few ozs, hemi pistons are a little beefy because of the top for the hemi head but the bbc is heavier by a few grams as it has a big dome also. You can put aluminum manifolds on any of them , dist and oil pumps will pretty much be a trade off and the hemi rocker shaft assy will be heavier than the individual stamped rockers ----