Thread: allright ford guys

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if you put a 351 winsor and a 351 cleveland side by side how do tell them a part I have heard If it take peanut plugs it a cleveland and if it take the big plugs it a winsor dose any one really know curious minds want to know

Who cares, how did they get off the anchor chain, now thats the real question.




















sorry man, I could'nt help myself.

O.K. John, here ya go, now a 351 Windsor is really a slightly enlarged 289/302, as it's name implies it comes from Fords "Windsor" engine family (a.k.a. the 90-degree V engine family). The thin-wall cast SMALL BLOCK accepts regular sized spark plugs, uses a timing chain in the block, routes water through the intake manifold, features thin main-bearing caps, a very good oiling system, and uses the same heads for 2V & 4V versions. The heads are are small, utilizing in-line valves with relatively small ports. The valves are 1.78" intake and 1.54" exhaust, i.e. the same size as a 289/302. The valve covers are straight (front to rear), attached by 5 bolts, and when removed you can see 351 cast in the lifter valley. The small side-by side (in-line) valves are the dead give-away.

The 351 Cleveland, on the other hand, belongs to Ford's 335 engine family. This thin-wall cast BIG SMALL BLOCK uses the smaller 14mm spark plugs, has a separate front cover (bolted to the block) housing the timing chain and routing water - so that water does not go through the intake manifold, features beefy main caps (wide enough to drill for 4-bolt mains), a poor oiling system, and uses different heads for 2V & 4V versions. The heads make all the difference and these fire breathing babies make this motor the legend it is. On the 4V, the valves are HUGE, measuring 2.19" intake and 1.7n" exhaust (don't remember exactly). Valves this large are only possible via a canted valve arrangement, forming what Ford refers to as a "poly-angle" combustion chamber. The valve covers are not straight - the front is flat and parallel to the ground, but a curve twists the rear parallel to the head. They are attached by 8-bolts and when removed, there is a 4 cast into the corner of the 4V and a 2 cast into the corner of the 2V (at least in 1970). The canted valves are the dead giveaway.


351 Windsor
5-bolt straight valve covers
radiator hose to the intake manifold
regular 5/8" spark plugs

351 Cleveland
8 bolt 2-plane valve covers
radiator hose does not connect to intake
small 14mm spark plug

Hope that helps ya out.

John, for a quick reference, the 351 windsor has the distributor running through the front of the intake manifold. On a 351 Cleveland or a 351M the distributor is running through the front cover and not the intake manifold. Simple, Huh.

thanks ford guys I have alot chevys but happen to pick up a couple ford trucks one has a 429 cj and the other one I was not sure of with the info you gave me it a cleveland thanks

ohn, for a quick reference, the 351 windsor has the distributor running through the front of the intake manifold.

Not quite
I have a 1969 351w I just finished rebuilding, the distriutor does not go through the intake
In other words, I do not have to pull the distributor when or if I pull the intake.
(edelbrok #2181 intake, 9.2 deck height block)
The distributer is nested directly on the block in front of the intake.

as for the 351c or w side by side, easy for me.
The valve covers gasket flange is rectangular on the 'c' and rounded off on the 'w'.

Besat look at you windsor again. The distruibutor definitely runs through the intake. I am looking at mine right now.

Mine look like It come up through the water pump housing and the intake is behind just like my 429 the hole motor looks like my 429 but much smaller

Aftermarket comes both ways, here's one from edelbrock

Thats preety much my intake viking
The distributor nests on the block, and from the looks of the height of the intake and the block deck where the dist nests, the dist would never work if an intake was made to support the dist.
Anyways, Let's see if these pics work

Yeap, you two are right and I am wrong. Went out and looked at mine this morning in the light of day and sober (LOL) and the intake does curve around the distributor position on the block.

I surrender.

Originally posted by Oldf100fordman
Yeap, you two are right and I am wrong. Went out and looked at mine this morning in the light of day and sober (LOL) and the intake does curve around the distributor position on the block.

I surrender.

I know what you mean, for some real fun next time you're six sheets in the wind and have one of those GREAT idea's, write it down somewhere, now when you wake/sober up read what you wrote, needless to say I did'nt share many of those "pearls of wisdom"

Six sheets?
Heard of and have been two sheets before

Another great drunken idea to avoid is 'Fun with Duct Tape' Or everyones favorite 'Guess your weight & IQ'

Both can get ya in trouble pretty quickly

Originally posted by BigNasty
Six sheets?
Heard of and have been two sheets before

Another great drunken idea to avoid is 'Fun with Duct Tape' Or everyones favorite 'Guess your weight & IQ'

Both can get ya in trouble pretty quickly

Yeap, but not as quick as "Whose girl friend are you?"

I have to admit it's been 18 years since I've had a 351W or a 302 apart. My old feeble mind was playing tricks on me.

Originally posted by john gemmer
thanks ford guys I have alot chevys but happen to pick up a couple ford trucks one has a 429 cj and the other one I was not sure of with the info you gave me it a cleveland thanks

But one thing to watch out for is the 351M as Ford calls it in their Racing Performance Parts catalog. It looks like the 70-73 Cleveland, but has a taller deck height (10.297 inches like the 400) and uses the 429-460 bellhousing pattern. Not that it a bad motor but you can put in directly to replace a windsor or as far as that goes the 70-73 cleveland. It also uses different motor mounts. It does use the 2 barrel cleveland heads. You'll find this motor in a lot of Ford pickups.

Nothing like the good ol Blue Oval to complicate things is there?