Thread: Timing out by 55 degrees!!!!!

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Hey everyone. Ok, i'm a pulling my hair out. Here's why:

Took my car out for the first time a couple days ago...ran fine. Took it out again friday and it started missing from just off idle, getting really bad around 2000rpm. Also the starter was barely able to turn the thing over. Today i check the timing and it's sitting at around 55 degrees (vac advance disconnected)!! Ok, that explains things but how the hell did it move that much?!!?

I had originally set the initial at 14 degrees. Vac advance has 10 degrees. I'm running an accell 300+ ignition box, matched coil and an accell street billet distributor. Everything is tight inside the distributor and it can't physically move 41 degrees without hitting the intake or dipstick tube. So now i'm thinking it's the ignition box.

If anyone knows a way to test the box or has had any experience with this kind of problem please let me know!! Thank you.

-KevD

Had an MSD box that put the timing all over the place, never the same twice. Chucked it and went back to stock ignition, runs perfect.

[OTE=R Pope]Had an MSD box that put the timing all over the place, never the same twice. Chucked it and went back to stock ignition, runs perfect.[/QUOTE]QU

Thats the beauty of a stock Kettering (points) ignition system, if something is wrong you can usually see it and use plain old common sense and mechanical knowhow and fix it. The only tools needed was a multimeter and a vacume guage. You dont need these fancy testing thingames to track down weird ignition variations.

And what I really like about points ignitions, is that run just as good as electronic ignitions if well maintained. This goes for magnetos as well.

Are you timing the engine with a dial-back timing light?

Looks like maybe so since you listed 55 degrees.

I have an MSD 6AL on my 32's 462" Buick engine and it was 20 degrees off when timed with a dial-back set at zero.
I think it went to the advance side.

I checked the timing with the old timing light and it was right on at 32 degrees BTDC at 3000 rpm.

Both timing lights were Sears Penske.

The strange timing bit doesn't happen to all dial-backs, just some of them.

The vacuum advance having ten degrees doesn't make too much difference since you had it unplugged when you shot the timing.
How much mechanical (centrifugal) advance do you have?

Any chance the mechanical advance weight spring went missing or broke?

Had problems with some different timing lights on MSD equipped engines. I got a new Snap-on light, no more problems. It has the advance knob on the back and deciphers the real signal on the MSD's......Just don't ask what it cost!!!

The MSD I had (actually two different ones) it wasn't the light, the timing actually was all over. One time it would run all right, next time it'd just about blow the starter drive off, or be so retarded it wouldn't run. You could feel it changing as you went up the road, the sound would change at random, and so would the power. The last one is still on the firewall, impresses the hell out of gullible school kids but doesn't do anything.

Throw in a GM HEI and be done with it. My MSD was taken out several years ago. It runs every bit as good now, actually more reliably, than with the aftermarket ignition. But first make sure the dist. wasnt actually moving, or as mentioned above, the advance weights might be loose...no spring.

What the hell is going on?? I posted a reply last nite and now it's gone... Oh well...

Here's the scoop: I determined that the distributor had jumped a tooth. I put #1 cyl at TDC on the firing stroke, pulled the cap and the rotor was pointing to #8 cyl, one terminal off. I then discovered that the dist wasn't seating properly so i yanked it again and found that the oil pump drive tang on the dist shaft was shorter than the one on my HEI. In other words when you drop it in, it bottoms on the oil drive shaft and doesnt sit down completely. I carefully trimmed it to the exact length as the HEI and it seemed to fix the prob, as it seated properly.

Took her for a ride, ran fine until i punched it. I heard a pop sound and the car started to miss again. Sure enough, the dist jumped a tooth again! So this is not a prob with the ignition box. I wanted to know if anyone has had probs with accell distributors not seating properly. HEI works fine. Accell makes it jump a tooth... HELP!

It would appear that you have a gear mesh problem. That being said, have you contacted Accell?
I've had problems with other Accell products so if it says Accell, I run like hell.

yeah i sent them an email... still waiting for a reply.. I may try the gear off my HEI. Maybe that'll make it mesh better... Worse comes to worse i'll rip all that crap out and stick with a tried and true HEI.. Thanks for the help.

HEI is a good distributor and with a good coil and decent plug wires (NOT Accell) it'll do a fine job on the street.

I think you have other problems...I have never, ever heard of a gear or pump drive that didnt fit right. You said it wasnt seating right...meaning the collar was not sitting all the way down on the intake? Did you line up the tab on the bottom of the distributor shaft with the slot on the oil pump drive shaft before you dropped it in? If they dont line up, it wont drop all the way down. Sometimes you might have to try this several times before it lines up. Did you turn the oil pump shaft with a long screwdriver to get it into the right position? Something doesnt sound right to me. There is no way a distributor gear can 'jump' a tooth if it's seated properly. And the only way it wont be seated properly is from the above problem. Keep us posted, this is interesting. And for what it's worth, I have tried several different systems, and always go back to a basic HEI....cant beat em! John

If you're not getting the distributor drive tang down in the oil pump slot what could be happening is when the engine is fired the distributor does drop into the oil pump slot which would leave the clamp loose and the distributor free to rotate.

The distributor needs to be seated properly before tightening the clamp.

Sometimes it takes several attempts to get things to line up.

Take note of where the oil pump slot is and turn it with a long screwdriver so the distributor tang will mesh with the oil pump slot.

When you slide the distributor in, the gears will mesh first so you need to make sure they are where you want them vis a vis having some distributor rotation available for final timing & tuning.
Keep in mind the distributor shaft/rotor will turn as the distributor goes in due to the angle on the gears so you have to account for that.

As the distributor goes down the tang should drop into the oil pump slot.
Then the distributor will be fully seated and ready to clamp.

I believe thats what I just posted

Originally Posted by 1JohnnyO

I believe thats what I just posted

Yeah . . . you did, didn't you....

I should have read a little closer.

Ya think it will help if we gang up on him?