Thread: My first build

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Originally Posted by pat mccarthy

i seen scat take 1000HP so it just not low buck stuff same with this list PBM/Scat .Cat .Eagle .Elgin .Manley Wheeler . Pro comp . Ohio crank. RPM.PEP.Comp star .and another dozen or so all forging come from china and i used all of them many times on this list and many no name yellow box stuff . to say its all the same is not true .to say that scat is just like eagle is not true and asking a guy from eagle if his stuff is the same as scat .is like asking a guy at McDonalds if his burgers are like Burger king ? well they both come from beef ???. well you hope ? eagle rods are ok there crank are far from the finish of a scat . there are thing about eagle i do not like and could make a list on here about there bolts in there rods to the finish on there cranks and how bad some of the finish is on the raw parts of there cranks were scats look as good as a 1800. callies magnum

Pat is saying pretty much the same thing here that I have read and heard from other professional engine builders. David Vizard has said that he has run the Scat cast steel crank on 550 hp applications for years with zero failures and that it's pretty much good to go right out of the box. Other builders have complained that they have to re-manufacture the Eagle cranks due to bad tolerances, non-parallel journals, etc. Now, at some point down the line, I suspect Eagle will wake up and get their act together, but if I were to build a budget 383 today, it would be with Scat parts.

I see this as reminiscent of post-war Japan, when everything that came out of their manufacturing facilities was considered junk. Nowadays, Japanese goods are considered state-of-the-art and I suspect the same thing will happen with Chinese goods in the future. Junk now, gems later.

I think one of the worst things that could happen to the guy on a "budget" is for him to lose it all because of bad choices..........Just my two cents worth.

Originally Posted by techinspector1

Pat is saying pretty much the same thing here that I have read and heard from other professional engine builders. David Vizard has said that he has run the Scat cast steel crank on 550 hp applications for years with zero failures and that it's pretty much good to go right out of the box. Other builders have complained that they have to re-manufacture the Eagle cranks due to bad tolerances, non-parallel journals, etc. Now, at some point down the line, I suspect Eagle will wake up and get their act together, but if I were to build a budget 383 today, it would be with Scat parts.

I see this as reminiscent of post-war Japan, when everything that came out of their manufacturing facilities was considered junk. Nowadays, Japanese goods are considered state-of-the-art and I suspect the same thing will happen with Chinese goods in the future. Junk now, gems later.

yep it nice to start every build with $2000. dollar rods and a $1800 crank and down the line.but most of the guys i deal with are looking to build the best with the least money . i did my home work long ago on this stuff when you could buy a 4.250 crank for $400. not all of it was all out race engine but a week end warrior stuff and looking for as like quality and finish of a GM crank for replacement and most of them could do that .then we did the acid test see what the hold out was i had a test engine and some guinea pigs as well willing to see how well it was .over time the stuff did get better and things like straight shot oiling eight plate cranks . cam cut counter weights . bigger counter weights to help keep down on heavy metal as they started to make cranks more like a $2000. custom as to options .now the line is very thin to what crank will hold up to VS a all out race crank usa made . many of the old GM crank s by the time you pay to clean them mag check for cracks . then turn them the price of a new cast steel crank from scat or a 4340 scat your stock block very well could start to fail before the crank . same with the rods were stock stuff thats used up it may be better to start with a new set of rods . there is levels to the list of parts to mild stock stuff to H beam rods so knowing that part to use when you need it helps . how you build the engine comes in to play as well as parts prep of parts before you use them

Don't misunderstand me.Pat is in business to serve his customer's needs and wants. We have been in the "Q" to supply used and overstock hard core parts.Being in that supply line has exposed us to things in the industry that I report back to you guys. I do miss the days of old where the idea of a budget never came into the conversation when talking about hot rodding. Both me and my partner when we wanted something yrs ago worked a second job or whatever it took to buy those parts. For the whole time we have been together we have wanted to go Pro-Mod racing,but in the same hand realize that will never happen because it is too far out of reach.

A part of that is where I come up with there isn't a time span on these project builds.If it takes alittle longer to get better pcs and save more,it shouldn't be any big deal and a acceptance of that being the facts. You know when I talk about only $200 to $300 more,that isn't a whole lot of money considering the big picture.

Originally Posted by 1gary

Don't misunderstand me.Pat is in business to serve his customer's needs and wants. We have been in the "Q" to supply used and overstock hard core parts.Being in that supply line has exposed us to things in the industry that I report back to you guys. I do miss the days of old where the idea of a budget never came into the conversation when talking about hot rodding. Both me and my partner when we wanted something yrs ago worked a second job or whatever it took to buy those parts. For the whole time we have been together we have wanted to go Pro-Mod racing,but in the same hand realize that will never happen because it is too far out of reach.

A part of that is where I come up with there isn't a time span on these project builds.If it takes alittle longer to get better pcs and save more,it shouldn't be any big deal and a acceptance of that being the facts. You know when I talk about only $200 to $300 more,that isn't a whole lot of money considering the big picture.

that i posted was not base off any of your post . the deal with me is many guys do not want a pro stock engines or need them parts . but i used and sold very hi rent stuff. i do not feel the need to post it every time to prove my metal on here . to make a liven it.s two points #1 by selling good parts and feed back of parts that i used and know will work for the job at hand if a lower dollar part will do the job that option is on the table . #2 trying to get more people in the game by selling them something i build so i can pay bills so i can build more engines and grow my shop.a engine that they can live with many guys do not need a $2000 crank but i like building them engines as well . i like to hear back from customer s that tell me we kick ass and i know and they know what they have .it not always the best parts in a engine it.s how it put together.throwing money something will not assure a good engine

Pat I know you have been on both ends of the spectrum. And I am very sure you draw a line on the bottom end to protect your rep.
We have seen guys with tons more money than us and have put them on the trailer too.
But the main point important to this O/P is he doesn't have to buy into the lower dollar deal over one more time $200 to $300 dollar difference.I am saying buying a package deal is a deal solely because they have to include weak link parts in them.Also how many times have we seen a original build grow in expectations over the yrs. I just can't count that high. Do-overs are twice as expensive.So pick out selected parts as I agree with you and come up with a better rotating assembly. Forget the pre-packaged deals.

gary its not just 200or 300 it all the parts that you can say that about .that you may not need . lets just start with crank say a forged steel crank about 350 more then lets say over a cast steel crank then you need a race H bearing that moves the price up over 100 on rod and main bearings so now its $450 . that could be spent were you can see it like a roller cam . better heads intake oil pan headers. if on any budget to spend the money were you get the best bang for the buck . the engine will not know if it has a cast crank or forged parts this is getting back to knowing what to use when

Yeah Pat.The whole concept of hot rodding is to always want more.These Budget builds should come with a warning sticker that states this build is not to exceed a hp rating.Surely the top haft is where the power is made.But if your coming up short on money for a wiggle room to safely add on later,maybe you shouldn't be building a stroker in the first place.Maybe you save the costs of the stroker to add to a 355 build instead.This is part of the suggestion I want to pass along to the O/P.

With all the STUFF out there---It still comes down to accurrate machine work----on a block, the squaring/decking, bore/hone with t plates, align bore/hone---should be to the same caliber no matter what level parts are used in the lower/rotating end----

the decking and align hone of mains doesn't require any different parts, of course the boring of the block does add the cost of a set of pistons----

Not for a thought that nobody ever considers---IF YOU CHANGE the type of engine, you will also have to do an exhaust system---
and other accessories---if you have a small block, you can do a Dart shp and stroker cheaperas an upgrade than you can redo exhaust, motor/trans mounts, clutch, water pump etc etc

i have stainless steel headers for it already, and why would i need to change the motor mounts? They came with either the 305 CI or the 350CI and same motor mounts.

I think Jerry was saying that in a generic form. Not you specifically.

whats everyones thoughts on going with a turbo set up on a 350 ci motor 4 bolt main its a TBI? whats the pros and cons of this?

I don't think a turbo is as hard on parts as a big shot of nitrous. But you should still be prepared to buy the parts needed to handle it.