Thread: Flathead Newbee Needing Direction!

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Ok Im Sure This Has Been Asked A Trillon Times, But Im New Here So Be Cool. I Got A 33 Ford Pick Up With A Sb 350 With All The Billet Stuff. It Is Hooked Up To A Turbo 350. But Know I Want To Build A Flathead.i Am More Into The Look Of The Motor Than The Power I Can Get Out Of It As Long As I Can Get On The Freeway Ill Be Happy . My Questions Are, What Kind Of Block Should I Look For?and After I Find One Are Thier Rebuild Kits For Them ? Thanks In Advance!

Other folks will have other comments but I am at home for the afternoon. I too wanted a "built" flathead but ran into many problems. I bought four blocks only to find all of them cracked beyond use. That said, the question is what can you find? Surely avoid the early 21 stud V8 flathead since the early ones had poured-babbit main bearings. I think the insert bearings came in with the 1938 24-stud blocks. Ignore the tiny 60 HP V8 unless you want to have an interesting Model-T or an inboard motor boat. The early 24-stud V8 had a stock bore of 3 1/16" x 3 3/4" stroke and was the "59A" block which occurs as raised letters on the large bell housing. The early Mercury engines and the '46-'48 Ford "59AB" blocks were 3 3/16" bore x 3 3/4" stroke (nominal 239 cu. in.). The '49-'53 Ford blocks were still 3 3/16" bore x 3 3/4" stroke but the blocks had a bolt-on stamped metal bell housing which was shared by some of the pickup truck models. The best set up was the '49-'53 Mercury block with the longer (torque monster) 4" stroke cranks. I still have a good one in my shed if you cannot find one and they are available from Speedway for about $900; I'll let you have a good one for $500 plus shipping. The real problem is that it is hard to find a block that is not cracked. If you do find one bore it the minimum because those blocks often had core shifts that lead to thin walls after boring. The problem is that rebuilders and rodders have bored out the blocks to 3 5/16" or 3 3/8" and then heating has led to cracks. Note that there are only three exhaust outlets on each side of the block so the center of the block tends to get hotter than the ends and another common crack area is from the edge of a cylinder to a valve and that is essentially impossible to patch. Yes there are still a few "French Army" blocks available in new condition but they cost $thousands not to mention shipping. Then if you do find a good block the cost of a build up will be much higher than for a SBC 350. Aluminum finned heads are $450/pair or more, stromberg carbs are hard to find and expensive to fix and then there is the $900 stroker crank. Hey it breaks my heart to say it, but be glad you have a 350 SBC! It would be cheaper to build a replacement 383 than to build up a flathead Ford V8 these days. Yes there are still a few specialty shops around which can still find the parts and build up a flathead but I'll bet you can build three or four stout 350/383 sbc engines for the same cost, so what is your budget like? Yes you can do it if you have the money. I would use a 4" Merc crank in a 59AB block with the minimum cleanup bore, maybe 3 5/16" but definitely NOT 3 3/8". I'd use an ISKY Jr. cam with Johnson adjustable lifters and whatever two pot manifold you can find along with the visually necessary finned aluminum heads (Offenhauser or Edelbrock). You need a high volume oil pump because the stock blocks were notoriously anemic for oil pressure, a Mallory dual-point ignition AND then add a lightened (chopped or aluminum) flywheel. That would give you a good 3/4 race engine. If you want more you should "relieve" the block face from the valves to the bore and grind out the intake ports to try to make them "straighter" without holing through the sides. Fenton cast iron headers are still available although steel tube headers are cheaper. After all of that you may get 250 HP which is VERY good for a flathead and unheard of in the fifty's but then you can get 270 HP or more from a SBC 350 with a rebuild, a street cam and headers. There is also a good chance that with a bored block and increased displacement your V8 will run hot so you should plan for extra cooling. Good Luck!

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Don just about said it all. I have built two flatheads and they were a 51 merc and a 53 merc. I bored them both out .040 and had no problems with overheating. Definitely go with the 4" merc crank and use 2 not 3 stromberg carbs. With some good heads and a 3/4 race cam and you shold get around 200 HP or more. As Don mentioned finding a good block thats not cracked is the problem.

wow thanks for the help i think ill try it, sounds like fun ! ive buillt 5 sbc 350's and now id like to try some thing different! maybe i can find some one to trade me my motor and trans for theirs(plus cash im sure)! at least now i know what im looking for.

you you said that i should look for a 59AB block what about a 59,59L or any 59x block for that matter

The 59L blocks I think were made for the military and were suspose to be good blocks but hard to find. All 59 series blocks should take a good bore of .040-.050 over as core shifting was not as common as the earlier blocks.

thanks for the help

As the guys mentioned, building a flathead is not as straightforward or easy as building almost any other engine. I have a friend named Tony DiCosta, who owned Hot Rod and Custom Supply for years. Tony is one of the best flathead builders around, and built the one for Don Garlits car and the Total Performance T Bucket. Let's just say he knows his stuff.

Tony told me one time out of every 10 blocks he looks at to build, only 1 block will be acceptable because of stress cracks and other problems. Flatheads were known to have some issues, and these led to the early end of a lot of them. Years of sitting hasn't helped the situation either.

Tony had $ 9000.00 in the motor he built for the T bucket, so building one is not cheap. I know flatheads have become the current rage, but if it is any consolation, when the first OHV V8 engines came out, most of us couldn't rip the old flatmotors out fast enough. Oldsmobiles and Cadillacs were replacing flatheads in almost everything you could imagine.

I agree that a dressed flathead is really pretty, but you have to remember you are dealing with 75 year old technology, and they simply aren't as dependable as later engines.

I know some flathead devotees will counter this opinion, and that is ok. I do like them, but just thought all the cards should be on the table for you.


Don

though $9k is way to much for me. i also have read of one being built for under $3k. im not looking to build this high horse power DOHC blown motor. i just would like to try to build a simple one. if only to say that i did it and it would give my truck that old look tha i longed for.

I had to go out earlier and had to sign off but here is some inspiration in a car I saw at last year's Richmond NSRA meet (2005). It is in a very nice fenderless '34 roadster which looked to be steel. Note here this engine uses a triple carb along with an alternator. The old Ford mount for the long generator in front messed up most triple carb installations but with a modern alternator there is more room for three carbs and thus you can install progressive linkage so that the engine runs off the center carb at low throttle but opens all three when you put the pedal to the metal. I think the engine in this picture represents some big bucks but it really looks good. As I see it the only way you can build up a flathead as I said before and others have agreed is to find a good block. All the other parts are expensive but available; it is the good block that is the key ingredient. Maybe it is easier to find a '49-'53 block and I only favored the 59AB because I think the cast bell housing to be stronger. Another problem that you might ask around about was a horrible condition called "clutch chatter" caused by a worn combination of flywheel face, throwout bearing and clutch. Everything could be fine in forward gears but in reverse, especiallly backing up an incline, a worn clutch could go into violent bucking where the whole car would oscillate throughout the drive line and loosen every bolt in the car. This was especially troublesome in a convertible; my '47 would shake your eye teeth out in reverse! All those unpleasantries are gone with an automatic trans, assuming your universal joints are in good condition. Anyway here is a picture of an engine that is just what you want, but I would not be surprised if there was $10K sitting right there. One other thing worth mentioning is that the Ford flathead had only three main bearing webs compared to five in a SBC and there used to be a girdle kit that bolted down over the main bearing caps to add strength but even then probably a modern dose of nitrous or some sort of blower can more easily destroy the bottom end than is the case for a SBC. Frankly, if I had unlimited money I would look for a '55 Dodge Red Ram hemi engine which is similar in size and displacement to the flathead with hemi heads but there were fewer of them built and so harder to find, but that would be my answer to a non-cookie-cutter engine. I say this because the ultimate setup for a flathead would be ARDUN heads (the original hemi heads) and rumor has it that they go for $30,000 or more if you can find a set. There was an engine shown on the FORUM a year or two ago with ARDUN heads but the archive seems to have been messed up somewhat so all you can do is search on "ARDUN" and maybe there will be some pictures of the ARDUN heads. So after seeing that you will understand why a hemi-head Dodge Red Ram engine might be a cheaper engine than an ARDUN-Ford setup. Here is a link to a picture of an ARDUN setup; 175 HP seems small today but to folks of that time most cars were running around 100 HP so a bolt-on 75% increase was fantastic at that time.

http://www.oogabooga.ca/oogaboogapag40.htm

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Where is the picture of the '34 with the flathead? I will try to upload it again. OK there it is, now that is beauty! One other point I notice in this picture is that it looks like there is a dipstick for an auto transmission peeking out there? That would solve any clutch chatter problem.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

you say that this motor cost 10k ! WOW well i guess ill start by just hoping to find a good block and go from there. if any one has any more pics please post thanks

Go on the internet and type flathead engines on ebay. There is one on there that is built to around 225 HP for $6,000. Real nice looking engine.

post the link or auction number i cant find it?

is an 8ba block any good or should i just try to get an 59ab block

i found the auction if ne1 is intrested. Auction #190018855874
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Flath...QQcmdZViewItem