Thread: High Power Flathead

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The 221 went out at $4800.....the bigger stuff still leaves the door under $7600.

Originally Posted by nitrowarrior

Now, do I smell a challenge or were you just busting my chops?

Neither. It was an honest question and I bet your work is top notch. I was just curious whether the figures I had in my head were close to what it costs to buy a well done flathead.

Thank you for that info.

Don

I understand....Sometimes a person can smell a RAT and has to approach the questionaire with caution and fortitude.
Don, in all seriousness, the flatty has become a piece to build for power and looks....I scratch certain parts of my anatomy trying to figure out the nay sayer's and the "searchers" for the truth.

This is a topic of nostalgic interest to me. I still have a 4" crank from a '49-'50 Merc along with flywheel and rods available for half of what Speedway charges for a new crank, just let me know if anyone is interested. They say memories of younger days are better than of yesterday so I can see in my mind a cover of Hot Rod Magazine in the Fall of 1955 showing a flathead that dynoed over 400 H.P. If there is any way to find the microfilm archives of HRM tthat might be of interest. All of this is way out of range for my pocketbook and long ago I recognized that you can build a SBC-350 that will produce 300 H.P. (maybe more) for under $2000, but yeah I would like to hear a 59AB rumble again, it is just something that I will have to look/listen for at meets, not in my garage! The "rap rap rap" of glasspacks or Smitties on a flathead would be music to my ears.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

So, the goodies you have are for the 59AB?
I'm curious for a period correct poject.

I don't know if Ron Sterbenk's 1100 lb, 304" N/A Flathead V8, front engine dragster is pushing 400 HP, but his 1/4 mile ET's run in the high 8:80, best: 8.72 at Sacramento.
Best MPH: 157 at Bakersfield. All on 75% Nitro....Ron does all his own machine work on the engine/car. .....Mac1

Nitrowarrior,

V8 Flathead 240"/392 HP; at what boost? Can't be N/A!

Maxb49, Bob can tell you the exact year the flathead went to insert bearings, 1939? I know the 21 stud blocks had babbit bearings so maybe any 24 stud block will accept the later Merc 4" crank. As far as I know the '49-'52 Merc crank will fit in the 59A, 59AB and 8BA blocks. Bring a truck, I also have a rebuilt 59A with a bad crack but other good internal parts and an 8BA block with a scored cylinder and a broken water pump ear. A good machine shop might be able to make a good engine out of this but it is beyond my financial capability. The obvious answer is to buy one of those french NOS blocks if you have the funds. You are probably going to chop the flywheel anyway so my Merc flywheel should do. I pulled the crank, flywheel, rods and pistons out of a '50 Merc block in a junkyard but you will probably need new pistons after a clean up bore. By the way I looked at quite a few flathead blocks before I gave up and went to a SBC 350 and the overwhelming problem is that folks have bored the flathead blocks more than once or too much and then the thin walls run hot and crack between the cylinder and valve pockets right where you want to relieve the ports. Recall that the basic 59A block only had 3 1/16" bore so if that is the main mold for the later blocks the sleeves will be mighty thin with a 3 3/8" bore! On the other hand the 59A block I have has a 2" long crack along the bottom edge of the head surface over the exhaust ports. That said it would seem that if you find a good useable block any boring should be the least that you can find pistons for. For what it is worth there are main cap girdle kits which would seem to be essential with only three main caps. Gee I fretted over having only a two bolt SBC block but there are at least five main caps so thinking back to the flathead situation with only three mains reminds me of pictures in Hot Rod Magazine covering the Bonneville events in the 1950s where it was evidently common to see ruined bottom ends on the sand, how common I don't know but I do recall seeing several pictures of folks looking sadly at broken cranks and twisted rods, so that three cap crank is a limit. If I would have found a good block my intention was to build a mild flathead with a 4" crank and just 3 5/16" bore with an Isky Jr. cam and take what I got in the way of performance, but while I think a 400 H.P. flathead can be built, it might not last very long? Just for the sake of chitchat, I recall reading a Model T article which described a machine shop project that milled two T blocks at a 45 degree angle on the bottom end and made a V8 from two T blocks which was claimed to be a mighty powerful engine but since the siamesed rods had to be shaved to half thickness to share a common space on the T crank the rod bearing surface was way too small and the rods did not last very long. Maybe that is where Henry got the idea for a V8? At the moment it is interesting to me that even the SBC 350 is getting close to an antique engine so maybe it is a good idea to buy up a few 350s for future value?

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Originally Posted by Don Shillady

Bob can tell you the exact year the flathead went to insert bearings, 1939? I know the 21 stud blocks had babbit bearings Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

FYI insert bearings were introduced mid 1936 in what has come to be known as the LB block, still a 21 stud.

Bob, That is interesting that some 21 stud blocks did have insert bearings. When did the 24 studs appear, 1939? My copy of "The V8 Affair" by Ray Miller gives some details on the engine specifications but not all. It seems from what is given that quite a few dimensions on the crank changed in 1939 (59A block) so I am guessing that is the earliest that the Merc crank would fit. Back in the 50s I remember several 59AB engines fitted with the 4" crank and as I recall the '41 Merc had the 3 3/16" bore while the Fords had only the 3 1/16" bore but after WWII both the Fords and Mercs had the same 3 3/16" bore 59AB blocks from '46 to '48. From '49-'52 the Fords again had the smaller 3 3/4" crank while the Mercs had the 4" stroke. A long time ago I had a '38(?) block which I do believe had insert bearings but only 21 studs. I bought it for $10 and planned to put it in a Model A but scrapped it when I realized it was only a 21 stud block and to my youthful mind would not be as good as the 24 stud engines in all the Hot Rod Magazine pictures but that is long ago and the block was later scrapped so that is only a moot point memory. Another useful technical book is "Rebuilding the Famous Ford Flathead" by Ron Bishop which is a paperback that was available from Tab Books, Inc. and it has some better tables of specifications.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

400 hp seems a little much without a good deal more $$$'s. This i my 300hp flatty built to Joe Abbin's specs.

3 5/16 X 4, ported/relieved, all ports matched.

Believe me, 300hp is quite enough for me in my 40 tudor.

Fourdy

Originally Posted by Don Shillady

When did the 24 studs appear, 1939?
Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Correct, 1939.

Has anyone used this guys heads before? He is a local guy that makes them. They seem to be well thought out, 12% more volume of water, head bolt bosses are much stronger. Just wondering if anyone had any experience with them.
Ken

Ken, when I first heard of those the story was they were targeting the lakes racing crowd. Never have seen or heard of a set in use, there must be some out there though. About a year or so ago the tooling for those was up for sale. Seems I remember the original guys were in No. Cal. so apparently the guy near you bought the tooling?

Originally Posted by Fourdy

400 hp seems a little much without a good deal more $$$'s. This i my 300hp flatty built to Joe Abbin's specs.

3 5/16 X 4, ported/relieved, all ports matched.

Believe me, 300hp is quite enough for me in my 40 tudor.

Fourdy

A good deal more dollars? Joe Abbin? 300hp? That's it? Forced induction to achieve 300?