Thread: Ardun Heads

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It is a delight to converse with such engine experts! I guess the key question is whether the Ford Motor Co. actually refused the Duntov design and the other question which I cannot answer is to compare the actual dimensions, bore and stroke of the '55 Dodge Red Ram hemi to the 59AB flathead block for which the ARDUN heads were made, I have only seen pictures, but I remember being impressed with the Red Ram V8 in 1955 but only from the point of view of my checking the oil as a gas station jockey back in the days when that was routine service (designed to sell oil!) Does anyone on the Forum have a Dodge hemi or a picture? Having spent over 33 years in a bureacracy with plenty of "meetings" it is easy to understand why such a retrospective plum as the ARDUN design fell through the cracks at FoMoCo. Since I am hoping to build my entire roadster to better than rat rod standards for less than $25K, the fantasy that keeps me going is that the SBC is a close descendent of the early '51-'53 Cadillac OHV engine so I will imagine that I am installing an improved Caddy in my Fordelet rather than what was called a Fordillac in the '50s. The ARDUN heads are wonderful peices of historical machinery and should certainly support around 400 H.P. on a flathead block right up to the point where the crank fails due to only three main bearings, but still a wonderful design. Now can Tech1 find a dyno sheet for the ARDUN setup? My vague memory is something like 400 H.P. using 10% nitromethane fuel but alas my teenage stacks of Hot Rod magazines are long gone, but I guess some public library has microfiche copies somewhere. Since the $25K is out of my range it is only of academic historical interest to me anyway. Thanks to Bob for the picture of the Lincoln 337 which I now remember as a V8 and the 337 displacement, but the '48 and earlier used the V12 which was generally considered a dud (probably too much internal friction?)

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Okay Don, in the '50's Mopar had three different hemis, one each for Chrysler, DeSoto, and Dodge. Eventually they figured out this was not cost effective and replaced them with two wedge head series. Here's a chart on the various configurations of the hemis, click the "details" link to get more info on each.
http://www.thehemi.com/engines.php

Richard and Bob:
You guys are really good! The original ARDUN at 150-175 H.P. is more than the Red Ram Dodge hemi at only about 140 H.P. Recall that only a few years earlier the '49-'51 Merc was only rated at 112 H.P. so these numbers were pretty amazing at the time. I do recall an article where an ARDUN-Ford did make 400 H.P. but maybe it used more than 10% nitromethane in the fuel? Anyway Southerner surely got a bit more of the ARDUN history than expected and maybe I can think that the hemi "idea" was sufficiently widespread that the Crysler engineers could come up with their own version(s). I note that the Red Ram Dodge was indeed almost the same displacement as the Ford 59-AB but the Dodge only had 3.25" stroke compared to the Ford 3 3/4" and the 4" Merc. The larger bore of the Dodge 241 was probably related to the added spacing needed for the two new bearing webs and the adapatability for future development and the same design for the larger DeSoto and Chrysler versions. Somewhere I have other pictures of the ARDUN set up in a dragster, but I have bookmarked the site Richard found AND I feel a lot better about an easy 250-270 H.P. with my $1400 SBC 350.

Don Shillady
Retired Chemist/teen rodder

Well for what it is worth I wrote to the "oogabooga" site Richard lists above to correct the spelling of "Duntov" with a "T" and they have now corrected it. In addition there is a quote from Zora at the bottom of the site that I did not notice before and may be new. In that quote Zora says he first noted the Chrysler design in 1953 after he was employed by GM and sought no legal action and in fact he was pleased to see his (their) design adopted and put into mass production. Thus Chrysler merely adopted a "good idea", but Golleeeeee(!) why didn't Ford pick up on the design when Duntov was under contract? The probable answer is that the 337 cu. in. Lincoln looked stronger AND something we can understand, those valve covers certainly took up more space than a flathead design and led to the affectionate term for the ARDUN engines as Elephant engines and later applied to the Firepower V8 in a few cases. Thanks to Bob, the list of specs for the '57 Red Ram Dodge are much better than I remembered, does anyone have a '57 Dodge engine out there? Probably they are very rare, but it looks like the '57 "little hemi" was quite a motor. I should have stashed one away long ago, when I was busy paying for kids braces and buying station wagons to haul haul the family! Time flies!

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

recently on ebay an engine complete with ardun heads and fuel injection reached a bid of 28,000.00 but did not reach the reserve of the seller. I guess something is worth whatever someone else is willing to pay

great reading material.

i keep seeing these ardun plastic or fiberglass copies around at swapmeets & i keep thinking about
some FAKEY Ardun covers that could be plopped over a pair of stock heads that wouldnt make the flattie overheat!
it would sure look neat!

i was out "2-night" cruisin a sOuPeD 40 ford flattie w/2 carbs (FUN)
a guy says to me those motors are like a bad tooth! i asked how's that? he says it should be pulled out! LOL!
i touched the starter & she popped off & i let her idle awhile so he could hear the cam & he smiled & i said thats just like music!!!!!!

According to Rodders Journal #25....

Chrysler had a representative visiting Duntov several times durring the development of the ARDUN conversion. Zora Duntov said they had an "interest" in they're project.

Btw: I just got a ARDUN "clone" made in Brazil based on a V8/60 ford engine. you can see video of it here

http://home.comcast.net/~fairlane2k/...l_Sim-Test.wmv

Well, here's a way to test the current market value of original heads. So far no takers at just shy of $16k though it's had almost 1500 looks. ebay # 4593289319
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...RK%3AMEWA%3AIT

Chrysler's first Hemi was a 2220 cube V16 aircraft engine in 1944.
I had a 241 Red Ram in a '39 International pickup in 1965. Later my brother and I built a 354, and put it in various rigs, '57 Plymouth, '62 Dart, '53 Int, etc.
Just came into possession of a 276 DeSoto Firedome!
I recall a set of Ardun heads leaning up against a granary in an abandoned yard in the '60's, they weren't considered worth the effort to pick 'em up!

Ah memories. I remember a pair of Arduns sitting for sale at C-T Automotive in North Hollywood back about '59. They had done some work on them and the owner of them couldn't come up with the money. They wanted $300 and I was told I could have them for $200. Like I had $200. I drooled on those things for months.

C-T was an interesting shop. It was owned by Don Clark and Clem TeBow. They knew more about rodding than anyone else I ever met. Don ran the answer column in Hot Rod magazine for years and C-T probably turned out more 3/8 and 1/2" stroker cranks than anyone else around.