Thread: 460 rebuild project

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Hi all new to this forum.

I am preparing to rebuild my 460 in my f-250.

I am using about 2 quarts of oil per tanks
(dual) full of gas, she's got a little over 100K on her and well, I guess its time.

I am looking for a good place to start looking for parts, kits anything that will get me on the way to doing a complete rebuild.
Th motor is still stock and I have not done any performance to it. I really didn't need it to be honest. Truck is fairly fast as it is .I 've also got 4:10 rear in her and well 9000 lbs doesn't just jump up and run off that quickly no matter what is pushing it.

I do want to use performance parts where I can to help the motor develope more to it's true potential, but I want to be able to afford to drive it too!!! Gas is over $2.20 a gallon so I need to be reasonable and hopefully get more than a mile or two per gallon.
Right now I'm at a good 10 to11 mpg. Not bad for 100K on the motor.
Since I hit 75 K I started using oil at a tremendous rate as I stated earlier, I'm at a little over 2 quarts every time I fill up the gas tanks. I know that BB use more oil and that's part of life, but I am still wondering, because prior to 75K I very rairly used that much oil. could go 2500 to 3K without using enough oil to make me worry about it. (I check my oil every time I fill my tanks. Just something I have always done.)
Is this normal for a BB?
Some people say yes, others say no.

To be honest this truck has been the best truck I have ever had. NO real problems from any portion of the the truck.
Worst problem I have had besides the 2 quart oil usage has been the oil pan gastket blowing out a 2 or three inch section and a little more than usual oil loss, that I can tell ya. A whole lot of cleaning for sure!!! LOL
My truck has been great, no down time, never failed to fire, pulls anything I want anywhere I need/want to go. In fact, the only time I did not pull out a stump, was because I kept breaking the chains I had. Chains got so small that I couldn't hook up any more!! Needed bigger chains!!
But, I consider the oil pan gasket a regular maintenance issue. It happened at about 98K.
Any help in getting parts sources, ideas about improvements and anything related to a new motor or rather a rebuild situation would be greatly appreciated.
I plan to buy all my parts ahead of time and then pull the motor and tear it down and swap in the new. I hope t get this done by somethime in August when I take vacation.
Thanks Charlie

I just got my 71 Lincoln Coupe back from a total 460 motor rebuild. I checked the mechanics references and I STILL got shafted by the guy. Way overpaid for some parts. What I originally wanted to do is get on eBay, and get a 'motor in a box' rebuild kit for a 460. This is a motor rebuild kit with new pistons, oil pump, rings, seals, you name it. Everything is there except the crank, intake and carb. The kit I was looking at was all name brand parts, and I think the price was $450. Of course, my mechanic didn't want to do this and it wound up costing my extra aggravation and money. He wanted to spend my money at his favorite parts house instead. Enough of that crappy story of my own stupidity. Whichever way you go, you can swap out your stock cast-iron intake manifold and get an updated Aluminum one. I put a Weiand 'Stealth' manifold on my car, and except for it being rather tall, I am happy with it. Put a quality water pump on as well. Go with a double-roller timing chain and avoid a gear drive. Does your truck have dual exhaust? If not, plan on doing it. Anything that helps your motor breathe is a good thing. i didn't see how old your truck was, but I put electronic ignition on my car and its great. I used a Pertronix II kit that fits under the distributor cap. There will be other folks here giving you better advice purty soon, I'm sure. Keep us updated no matter what, okay?

Michael

My truck is a 95 so I am looking at the last of the Big Blocks produced. Manufactured in 12 of 95 so I am really talking about one of the lasr made.

You went the route with someone else doing the work, I am not. I will do the rebuild myself. I have rebuilt a few engines before, but not a 460. Some things are the same, some are not.
What I hope to find is some good info on where I can get good parts at a good price and what I can do to improve on the motor that I have. I don't want to go real wild, but I don't want just factory either.

i can get factory parts all day. But I need some ideas of what can be done to what I have that wil improve performance, give me more hp and not too much sacrifice at the gas pump.

Fot this I need help. I am only getting about 10 mpg as it is now. I figure that if I can increase hp without a big loss of gas mileage, well, I'm doing good.

I don't know this motor well enough to build something like this. AN LS1 different story. I know that motor pretty well. and I know where to get more info when I need it.

My basic plan is this
Start with the intake and get more air in such as K&N filter and maybe a better intake system. An RPM intake for Fuel injected motor and larger injectors.
more psi.) New cam, pistons, pushrods maybe going to a roller system (not sure yet.) Redoing the heads, valves, seats, seals etc. New bearings and not sure what to do with the crank, maybe just a balancing and polish, depends maybe I can get a better deal buying something rather than working with what I have. A double timing chain for sure, larger water pump and headers and a true dual exhaust. Of course, I plan on a new oil pump and probably a larger pan for oil. Maybe a 10 quart system. I'm not sure what to do with the cam at all.....

Just guessing, I would say I am looking to hit around 475 to 500 hp at the flywheel and possibly 400 to 425 rwhp.

I may need to change the computer for all this as well I am assuming I wil need a better distributor and a better starting system as well. This truck is my daily driver and I want to use it to get to the drag track pulling my car. But there is no law saying I can't have a great sounding truck to pull it with and one that will be a little surprize as well.

My car is stock looking. but I have a few surprizes under the hood and out the exhaust I have an '02 TA. Soon to be running low !!'s, but that is for another forum.

I don't want to drop alot of money in this motor, but I would like to get away with less than a grand or two.

What do ya think guys can I do this? Or am I dreaming?

Thanks

Charllie

I just did a complete on my carbureted 460 Ford E 350 16'+ box truck.

I bought all the parts on Ebay!

New Fed-Mog pistons $65.00
S-Power Moly rings $30.00
Mahle rod and main bearings. $30.00
Fel-Pro gasket set $12.00
General Kinetics RV cam with lifters $15.00
Roller timing set $5.00
Rocker arms and pivots $6.00 for all 16
Lunati Pushrods $10.00
Hi-Vol oil pump $5.00
Rebuilt water pump. $8.00
Cam bearings $3.00
Valve springs $8.00
Intake gasket Fel-Pro $1.00
Soft plugs $1.00

This is plus shipping. But, still had WAY less money in it than I can purchase a Wholesale rebuild kit for. Plus I got all the better goodies!!

A few days of searching Ebay for mis-listed items etc. I'm an insomniac anyways, so I enjoyed the late night searches.

PLUS>>> This thing can PULL!! I load a car in the box, parts and goodies. Then load a vehicle on a trailer behind and off we go! I have been doing 340 mile trips every two days. Only downside is 6.5 mpg and gas locally is 2.45 per gallon.

Good luck...

Glad to hear it. Pricing is awesome. I might not have the time to do all the ebay finds, but It sure sounds hopeful.
I'm just used to LS pricing on everything. Parts cost a fortune. Headers for it were almost a grand. And that was a good price for what I bought

Is yours an auto? Seems like automatic trannies get somewhere around 6 to 7 mpg. Mines is straight so I hope to be around the 10 I am getting now.

Thanks for the reply

Charlie

2 quarts of oil that often? Man, that motor is worn out! So much blow-by that the crankcase pressure blows the pan gasket? Man, that motor is worn out!

In regards to the inquiry as to whether BBF's use oil, well, no engine I know of consumes as much oil as that and is considered normal. The 429/460's use an umbrella-type valve stem seal (factory issue) and so some seepage of motor oil past the valve guides is normal. Many of the FoMoCo owners manuals I have owned noted that some oil consumption is normal, and those valve stem seals is pretty much the reason. But is sounds to me as though you have cracked an oil control ring or two. Or....that motor is worn out.

For an F-250 in need of a shortblock rebuild minimum, you may want to consider a stroker kit and make your engine 500 cubes at .030" overbor. That will produce a good amount of torque, and the nice thing about the stroker kits is that they ar complete with new crank, rods, pistonsd, rings, bearngs, etc. Just machine your block, assemble and go. Add a little cam to compensate for the increased displacement.

A great, reputable stroker kit dealer is: Brian Adams scatstroker@hotmail.com

He is not a fly by night seller but makes his living selling SCAT parts exclusinbgel. DO NOT buy anything but SCAT or Eagle stroker kits. Tell him Paul Kane sent you.

If you want to buy a generic rebuild kit for your 460, go with Summit Racing's kit that uses Speed Pro/Fel-Pro. Just be sure to fully disassemble your engine first and measure everywhere so that you know shat size pistons and bearings to order within the kit. Port the exhaust and get a mild camshaft and a bigger carb.

Paul

Originally posted by BOBCRMAN@aol.


I bought all the parts on Ebay!

New Fed-Mog pistons $65.00
S-Power Moly rings $30.00
Mahle rod and main bearings. $30.00
Fel-Pro gasket set $12.00
General Kinetics RV cam with lifters $15.00
Roller timing set $5.00
Rocker arms and pivots $6.00 for all 16
Lunati Pushrods $10.00
Hi-Vol oil pump $5.00
Rebuilt water pump. $8.00
Cam bearings $3.00
Valve springs $8.00
Intake gasket Fel-Pro $1.00
Soft plugs $1.00

This is plus shipping.

Good luck...

This may be the most inexpensive stocker rebuild I have seen.

Paul

Thanks Paul,

I am not sure where this oil is going. It is using it, but I have no tell tail sign of oil cloud going out the tail pipe when I drive. Exhaust is baisically normal. I do have a soot deposit on the tail pipe, which I assume is combusted oil, but no leaks except for the gsket on the oil pan that I replaced. The engine idles smooth and quiet. Plenty of hp ( stock) that is, but I really have no clue where this oil is going. I am seriously using 2 qts about every 250 miles. I never used oil in it during normal oil changes 2500 to 3 k before I hit 75 K on the odometer. Then bang I started using oil. A quart or so then gradually up to the rate I am at now. I have talked to many people about this and some say BB wil use some oil. Even know that BB Dodges can use up to 1 qt per 500 miles. This is factory spec. Mecedes Benz will allow 1 quart of oil usage per 1K and call this acceptable usage from the factory.
I realise this is unreal usage, and I am a fanatic about oil changes and routine maintenance. I keep a book that details all I do to every vehicle. This includes gas fillups, anything I do and I document the oil changes everything. So when I change oil it is within the 2500 to 3 K range. I am never more than 150 to 200 miles away from those numbers in any of my vehicles. All other maintenance is documented to such as fuel fiilter changes, batteries, tires, really anything I do to the vehicle. I am at a loss to explain where this oil is going other than I am just using it in normal operation.

Any insight, observation to this problem is welcome and I would love to get a better answer than well this motor loves to drink oil!!! It does love its oil. Grade does not matter, Manufacturer does not matter, Weight does not matter. It uses oil at the same rate now no matter what I put in it. Tried synthetic oil once, was a little expensive at this rate. But I tried it anyway. just to see what would happen. Every time I fuel up. Gotta add oil. Now at a rate of 2 qts per tanks full. She won't use 1 quart per tank, tried that. and overfilled it. Started and ran it and I got an oil cloud like you wouldn't believe. neighbors wanted to call FD. Thought it was on fire. Ran it for 5 or ten min and cleared up, no oil burning cloud anymore unless I overfill or pour really cold oil into the motor. So I keep a couple of quarts in the house during very cold months and well no problem.

Interesting as all get out. I have no clue as to what is going on. Everyone I talk to about this is stumped too. That's why I am doing the rebuild. Just to find out what the heck is going on inside that motor. To see if I have broken a ring or seals or I have no Iidea what I will find???

Charlie

For parts check out www. northernautoparts.com I have built a 429 and a 460 with most of my parts from the this parts place. As far as your oil usage, Are you getting a lot of blowby. Check your pvc valve. It goes to your air cleaner. You should be getting a lot of oil in the air cleaner area if your rings are bad.

Ok wait guys...although i truly beleive most of yous are very very good at engine rebuilding/tuning and yes i read what yous write back and beleive totally on what yous say.. apperantly this engine only has 100k on it. I had purchsed a 429 off a guy that said it was burning alot of oil. This motor had 200k on it at the time. I installed this engine in my F250 that i was using to haul my race car around with. Fortunetly for me i had a standard trans in my truck, after the installation i went for a ride down the road, brought the truck up to 70 miles per hour, then just reached over and shut the key off with the truck still in gear. the rear end continued to turn the motor over without it running. after it coasted to a stop, i just restarted the engine. A big cloud of smoke came out of the exhaust emedietly after starting. At that time i knew the valves seals were finished. After changing valve seals that motor would run the full 3000 miles between oil changes without burning more than 1/2 quart of oil. In conclusion, Is the truck running low on power? or is it just burning oil? have you checked the compression? If money is an issue ( and with us it usually is,..lol) try the simple things first. Maybe you will be rebuilding, then again maybe not. Just a simple way of testing without needing special tools
Rick

ceejay.lets look at your problem up close.your burning lots of oil.you blew out the oil pan gasket.you dont know where the oil is going it only has a 100,000 k.heres what i think..... you defiately have too much crank case pressure which is pushing out oil and gaskets. #1-.... have you checked your antifreeze for oil,if your head gasket is shot it could be getting into your antifreeze and also pressuring you crank case.#2-have you checked your pcv valve to see if it is working correctly and if there is any cracks in the hose.pcv-positive crankcase ventilation,exactly what it does.so that you dont get positive pressure when the pistons are pushing down which would push out oil. # 3-have you done a compression check,this could indicate a collapsed piston ,is there any engine noise? if compression is low. squirt a little oil into the cylinder via the spark plug hole and if the comp raises you can assume that the rings are gone. ok if comp is ,lets say 120 or up all across the board and there is no varience of 10 per cent or more.i would change my pcv valve,change my air filter and breather filter,clean out the air cleaner cover,change oil and filter.make sure antifreeze has no oil in it.when you change the oil make sure to do a 20 minute engine flush,with what ever product from your local napa first. this is important because you probably have a sludge build up and this might clear out passages that are important forproper crankcse ventilation like the inside of your valve covers. note - this is the cheapest fix,first.and if it works you should get another 100,000 on that motor.letus know.... ps: look at the back of your motor to see how much ,if any oil is being lost out your valve cover gaskets.i had a motor once with only 20,000 on her and she was going through alot of oil.it was because when moving there is a lot of oil in those covers and its running out the back .when stopped the oil runs back into the crank case and stops leaking. becuase the valve covers empti of oil,so when you do that recomended tune-up i perscibed,change the valve cover gaskets and i bet problem solved...