Thread: thinking about building a 429/460

Tweet

Originally Posted by mrc013

Paul, I want to run the car on the street, pump gas. Power needs to be respectable, I would say 400 to 450 horse should be all I need. If we can plan the build w/more hp, but still remain reliable, and streetable, thats ok.
I am leaning more towards iron heads, because I already have a set of 69 heads, but don't know what to do with them. I've read a lot about hydraulic rollers, but cost wise, not sure its the way to go, given all the valve train upgrades.

450 HP with C9VE heads and a regular 460 crankshaft is very, very easy...even on pump gas.

• Stock block with oiling mods as outlined on our website's Technical Pages
• .030" overbore 22cc dished pistons, such as the budget TRW L2404F30
• Stock prepped rods with quality rod bolts
• OEM 460 crank
• HV oil pump
• CompCams cam kit with springs and lifters, such as XE262H (513/520, 218/224, 110*)
• Ported C9VE heads (that you say you have) with 2.19" intake.1.72 exhaust valves, requisite port work, springs retainers, locks etc.
• Quality roller rockers, such as Crane Gold Series or equivalent.
• Weiand Stealth part number 8012 aluminum intake manifold
• Holley 850 cfm List # 4781
• Headers
• Recurved Duraspark distributor or MSD breakerless
• Headers
• (this makes a 9.6:1 c/r)

The above cam may be run with oem valve train harware with a mild spring upgrace (110-120 pound seat) and oem valve train...but a roller rocker upgrade will give room to grow and accomodate bigger camshafts, be much more durable, etc. What you chose to actually run depends on other variables, and this combo is only a rough suggestion and in no way has the details.

With the above camshaft, 400 HP is about what you'd get, while a simple cam upgrade (with roller rocker valve train mandatory) can get you to 450 HP or possibly 500HP with other bolt ons.

Paul
www.highflowdynamics.com

A Ford dude I know said some of the least abused, best maintained 460's are in old motorhomes, if you can locate one.

Who do I contact regarding the stroker kit?

Lots of different companies selling them.... Do a Google search for "stroker kits" and start shopping. Lots of them on eBay, too.

Originally Posted by Paul Kane

EE,

I didn't say not to run one; I said that I am not a fan and that I prefer the smaller stroker cranks.

There is little journal overlap with the 4.5 stroker, also they pull the pistons way out of the hole at BDC, then there's the rod ratio, increased cost of building relative to the smaller stroker cranks, etc. But yes, the 4.5 strokers are indeed run with success and will continue to be offered as they, too, are a "drop in" rotating assembly without any crankcase clearancing required, etc.

And they also can make an engine more costly to bulild, as they need more air to breathe, ie more cam (a roller if you really want the BIG HP, but this is not necessary for the engine to run), aslmost always cost more $ to balance, more $ for better heads (ideally), etc. And then with all that power you have this cast crankshaft with minimal journal overlap and thereby minimized structual integrity. A lot or racers seem to be breaking the 4.5 stroke cast cranks at about 1000+ HP or above. That might be a lot of HP for others...but again, for me, I'm just not a fan and would rather go with a smaller stroke deal. Good thing the forged cranks have arrived.

The 4.3 stroker (521/533) makes for a practically "square" engine, which I personally like. More importantly, the 6.8 rodded 521/533 stroker puts the piston pins just .030" lower in the bore at BDC than the OEM 460...which I re-e-e-e-eally like. Great rod ratio. We recently completed a 528 (4.42B x 4.3S) combo that runs on regular ol' pump gas and a single carburetor, and produced 737HP on the dyno, and a diesel flat torque curve that hovered around 655-678 pounds from 4000-6500 rpm (didn't check lower rpms due to the jetr boat application of the engine).

I simply much prefer the 4.3 stroke over the 4.5 stroke deal.

Paul

I will take the 4.5 stroke any day of the week to get a heavy bracket car to move.
In a marine application where the engine has to the rpm's for longer time frame I would prefer a shorter stroke.
A 1,000 + hp on a cast crank??
Why would you even try this???
At 600 hp I am looking for a forged crank.

Thats why I like the fords........I am lookin at 550 -600 on the stock crank Of course ,I am only gunna turn it to 6000 rpm or so.

Originally Posted by shawnlee28

Thats why I like the fords........I am lookin at 550 -600 on the stock crank Of course ,I am only gunna turn it to 6000 rpm or so.

Shawn,he was talking about a new "cast steel" crank not the stock factory crank.

Correct,...........that one goes to almost 1000 hp.

Originally Posted by mrc013

Who do I contact regarding the stroker kit?

MRC, if you're serious then contact me and I can set you up with a major distributor that carries top of the line brand name kits for a good price.

Paul

Originally Posted by erik erikson

I will take the 4.5 stroke any day of the week to get a heavy bracket car to move.
In a marine application where the engine has to the rpm's for longer time frame I would prefer a shorter stroke.
A 1,000 + hp on a cast crank??
Why would you even try this???
At 600 hp I am looking for a forged crank.

EE,

I never said that I would "try this" with an offshore cast crankshaft, I said that a lot of racers are having such said experience. Why do you keep misinterpreting my posts? I already stated that it's a good thing that the overseas forgings have arrived realtive to such application(s).

And if you are saying that you are building bracket cars with 600HP motors that use the cast 4.5 stroke cranks, then that's great. I don't see a problem with that either. But if you are saying that you are having problems with the cast cranks above just 600HP and must then turn to a forged crankshaft, then I'd begin to question the integrity of the build(s) and the tune...although I have heard of a defective cast offshore crank snapping during a leisurely trip aboud the block during a 2000 rpm break-in...

Believe it or not, marine application race engines, including jet boats and v-drives, are going to larger stroker rotating assemblies and turning the engines slower...and finding greater ET's and traps speeds than with the shorter stroke peaky stuff of yesteryear.

Paul

Originally Posted by shawnlee28

Thats why I like the fords........I am lookin at 550 -600 on the stock crank Of course ,I am only gunna turn it to 6000 rpm or so.

We've done about 1800HP on the stock factory cast cranks. Don't try this at home! 800-1000HP from a carefully selected, well prepped OEM crankshaft ought to hold up in an engine privided it is kept in good tune. But if you are building engine's of that HP level, you can certainly afford a better crankshaft. We use the cast cranks in our own engines but would not put one into a customer's engine.

Paul

MRC, here's a good budget, maintenance-free, pump gas stroker combo for the street:

• Stock block with oiling mods
• 500 cube stroker kit with 4.14 stroke crank, 6.800 H-beam rods, .030" overbore 32cc dished pistons
• HV oil pump
• Lunati 61605 hydraulic cam
• Ported C9VE heads with 2.19" intake/1.76 exhaust valves, requisite port work, springs retainers, locks etc.
• Quality roller rockers, such as Crane Gold Series or equivalent.
• Weiand Stealth part number 8012 aluminum intake manifold
• Holley 950HP
• Recurved Duraspark distributor or MSD breakerless
• Headers
• (this makes a 9.8:1 c/r)

A well planned version of the above build ought to manage at least 550 HP and have the potential for much, much more with induction changes and a camshaft upgrade...but at the cost of fuel economy and preventive maintenance.

Paul

Just going to add my .02 to the mix; I have a 460+.060,line bored,decked,iron heads (76 lincoln) ported by myself on the exhaust side and gasket matched on intake side, 3 angle valve job, .020 milled from heads,flat top hyper-utetic pistons, arp rod bolts, all balanced,Comp Cams 270H kit, edelbrok performer intake with 750cfm carb,hedders with 2 in primarys,stock ignition with mallory box, stock oil pump,RV torque converter and C6 trans, very streetable on pump gas. This is in my 1963 Mercury Monterey 2 dr sedan and it suprises many a chebby that laughs at big heavy cars with the blue oval, my biggest problem is traction, I can fry the tires way past 80 mph if I launch too hard.

Did you do anything special to the valve train? Rockers, studs, push rods, ect?

Originally Posted by Paul Kane

MRC, if you're serious then contact me and I can set you up with a major distributor that carries top of the line brand name kits for a good price.

Paul

Paul, Wher would be the best place to purchase a 514 stroker set up? Is this the engine that you recomend building? Next up, detailed machine work on the heads/port work. Cost?