Thread: 460 blue prints? engine schematics?

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Well hello to everyone from the home of the Huskers!

Does anyone know, or can they point me to, where I might find 429/460 blue prints/schematics? I am an engineer and am looking to 'possibly' design a boss head for the 429/460 that's not $8,000 but much more afordable! Plus, it would be nice to test it on my '68 Torino GT coupe...

Thanks a MILLION!!

Welcome to the forum. If Paul Kane sees this thread he will probably respond. He is very knowledgable in Ford BB matters and might be able to help out.

Don

www.460ford.com might have some info. Being these blocks are still being cast I'd imagine Ford has most of the blueprints. I know there is a Ford library of some kind where you can go and copy old documents and blueprints of some things. I forget the exact details on that tho. Something I read years ago. If your ever up for making a inexpensive set of 427 SOHC cammer heads I'll be first in line.

if you ever start casting boss 406's and side oilers ill take 1 each hey did i just hint i like fords :O oh daves gonna have a hey day!

Funny you bring up cammer heads...that's in a twisted sick way i was leaning!! that being said, i do know that the cammer had some higher rpm problems do the ohc design. maybe ford was trying to much with semi-hemi combustion chambers and overhead cams...BUT, i have an idea! -and it just may work.
cheers,
ps: if you can remember the library name of those blueprints i'd certainly buy that for a dollar!
bruce

Originally Posted by FFR428

www.460ford.com might have some info. Being these blocks are still being cast I'd imagine Ford has most of the blueprints. I know there is a Ford library of some kind where you can go and copy old documents and blueprints of some things. I forget the exact details on that tho. Something I read years ago. If your ever up for making a inexpensive set of 427 SOHC cammer heads I'll be first in line.

Ford is not casting these blocks anymore and you cannot get one from them either as most are already gone........no more 460 crate motors.........from ford.

Originally Posted by Amberwood63

Does anyone know, or can they point me to, where I might find 429/460 blue prints/schematics? I am an engineer and am looking to 'possibly' design a boss head for the 429/460 that's not $8,000 but much more afordable!

No disprespect, but how can you produce a hemishperical cylinder head for a price that is "much more affordable" than $8000? Will it be cast or billet? Water jacketed? If cast, are you a pattern maker and if not, have you priced the co$t of having a pattern fabricated? How about raw materials? Ingot aluminum for the casting process? If billet heads, billet aluminum ain't cheap these days, what with all the overseas companies paying top dollar for the stuff. Will you use existing valve train hardware and if so, doesn't this mean buying pre-manufactured components so how does this keep costs down? Or will you design your own valve train? How long do you think this will take from start to finish?

Nothing would please me more than to see another cylinder head option for the 429/460 (there are about twenty five 460 head options these days). But frankly $8000 for a pair of Hemi heads is a bargain...until I suppose somebody starts making knockoffs in China....but I'll bet that the price savings there will be eaten up in extra needed machining, replacement of cheap included parts, and potential horsepower being lost due to inferior design. We have invested decades planning and designing and re-engineering our heads, and none of the parts interchange with any other Ford hemi head out there....it's all a unique design. The time efort and money invested is countless.

If you work for an engineering firm/machine shop and have everything at your disposal, then I'm envious. BUT, I can also tell you of others that have tried to design (or duplicate the oem) hemi heads and had nothing but problems, one example is a hemi top end kit that burns up the customer's #1 and #5 pistons in a single quarter mile pass, every time. Our heads have run on the streamliner for 5 times that distance, with as much as 86% nitro...and never a problem.

Good luck (I sincerey mean that),

Paul

Originally Posted by DennyW

Sounds like you might want to do a field trip, and get a block from the bone yard. That way you can see first hand. Plus, if you grab a head, that gives you a base to start with.

No, no, no. Grab a BLOCK and put it on the stand. Turn off your telephone, pager, email, etc. Lock your door and keep your friends away and have food delivered. Get a shop full of precision measuring equipment, CNC machines, plotters, comparitors, etc.



Paul

Originally Posted by shawnlee28

Ford is not casting these blocks anymore and you cannot get one from them either as most are already gone........no more 460 crate motors.........from ford.

Correct, 429/460 blocks have not been cast for years. Ford has been offering the crate motors using overbored, used, refurbished blocks. And at the current moment, they can't seem to even get used blocks that they're happy with. I dunno what's up, but I have about 30 blocks that I think could help them out and I'd still be sitting pretty in the block department, but they arent' showing much interest in what I have.

I heard they may have some crate mtoors again next year. How they intend make it happen (based on what I've heard) made my jaw drop.

Paul

Originally Posted by FFR428

...I'd imagine Ford has most of the blueprints. I know there is a Ford library of some kind where you can go and copy old documents and blueprints of some things.

If you find where this Ford Library is, please let me know. I understaned Ford to be very, very pissy about letting anything out of their control, such as trademarks and blueprints.

The last time I heard of a set of Ford Boss Hemi head blueprints being outside of Fords hands/associates was when a copy was taken to my partner's CNC machine shop, at which time he took two big hunks of aluminum and whittled the very first set of billet Ford 429 hemi heads ever, which came to be the very first set of Ford hemi heads to ever break into the 5's. That was way back in the 1980's.

Paul

Originally Posted by Paul Kane

If you find where this Ford Library is, please let me know. I understaned Ford to be very, very pissy about letting anything out of their control, such as trademarks and blueprints.

The last time I heard of a set of Ford Boss Hemi head blueprints being outside of Fords hands/associates was when a copy was taken to my partner's CNC machine shop, at which time he took two big hunks of aluminum and whittled the very first set of billet Ford 429 hemi heads ever, which came to be the very first set of Ford hemi heads to ever break into the 5's. That was way back in the 1980's.

Paul

Hi Paul I'll find out for you.

Well besides Dove there are 2 others making new 427 cammer heads and parts. One is from Aussieland and the castings look very nice! I think Bill Coons was the other but not certain of the status there. Progress has been slow. There was a deal in the making where Jim Dove was going to offer a 427 cammer in aluminum for $11k. Block, heads, intake, timing cover, sprockets, chain, tensioners, cam stub and a few other diddys. He needed a certain amount of people to commit and fork over cash in advance. Paul Solomon was working close with Dove to get there castings up to snuff and of better quality. There were problems with the mold release agents and getting the head castings to fill complete and of any voids. I think they were using the molds Ford used for the aluminum cammer heads. And then swtiched to the cast iron molds and had better luck. Think the amount of steps, stages or compartments?? LOL gating might be the term I'm thinking of. Dove bought most of the old FE block, head, cammer part molds and tooling from Ford way back when. Pretty cool they are still in the game after all these years. Sure they have had their share of problems but have to give them credit for all their efforts. They have made some neat stuff over the years and revised head castings off all kinds. There are always growing pains. Shelby, Pond and Genesis all had their share as well.

Okay Dave Shoe sent me back this info. It's the Benson Ford Research Center.

http://www.thehenryford.org/research/default.asp

Originally Posted by shawnlee28

Ford is not casting these blocks anymore and you cannot get one from them either as most are already gone........no more 460 crate motors.........from ford.

Wow I did not know that. They are still in the 07 FMS catalog for this year. You have to wonder why they are dropping these?? Maybe making way for the "mods" of the future? Funny how some call these 4.6's "the cammers" which in theory they are. I just think of something different tho.

Yep ......................some one mentioned hurricane as the name of the new bbf.