Thread: how to find a good used 390/428 block

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Hi,

I have a 68 GT convertible 4-speed Mustang originally an S code 390 but now with a 302 with cracked block. It has been parked for 20 years. I am looking for a good used block to rebuild. I understand I need to find a 4V 390/428 block to do this. Is the best bet to call junkyards? What range of years would work and how many ford models had the 4V 390/428? Not a lot of money to work with. I used to do some motor rebuilding about 25 years ago.

Any suggestions on good rebuild manuals?
Thanks,

Rob

Are you after the correct date code and casting numbers block and heads to rebuild, or just a 4V390?? A wrecking yard might be a good place to start your search.

Dave,

I guess the answer would be that any 390 4V of the right vintage etc.., would likely do. Given money constraints, time constraints and the fact I have waited 20 years to do this (my teenage sons want to help) I would say a realistic expectation is to just get a decent 390 4V to rebuild. What follows from that is the other part of my question about what range of years and models of car had 390's/428's that would fit?

Rob

Richard,

Many thanks for your help. It looks like the majority of these would be similar blocks. If i stuck with 359 to 391 would work for maintaining the same bore. What do you think about companies like autoenginerebuilders online who have a 1968 rebuilt Cougar engine for around $1300? What should i expect to pay for a junkyard engine?

Years ago I recall that standard inspection was to look for a rod through the pan, a crowbar to see if you could turn it over and a look at the valves to see if they were still oily.

Robin

I'm with Tech on this one, I would much rather buy a buildable core (last one I got was $35.00 at an auction with a C-6 attached) and have my machinist set tolerances to where I want them, not to where some 9 to 5 guy who doesn't know me from Adam thinks they should be set. Yeah, it might be more expensive to do it this way, but as in all things, ya get what ya pay for. I never will argue with someone who sells his stuff for less, he obviously knows what it's worth.

Thanks to everyone so far,

I guess the general concensus seesm to be that I should look for a good used block either privately or through a junkyard. What do I check on that motor when I go to buy it? I listed some things that I remember used to be done. Obviously I should check the head casting numbers to see what they are but that would be pretty hard with the block in a junkyard.

Robin

Robin, First welcome. You want to become familer with the casting numbers and date codes for the FE/FT series. This way you will know what your looking at when the time comes. Most blocks, heads, cranks, rods etc.... will have a casting number. This is the number Ford used to ID the components used in their engines. Check out this site www.dscmotorsport.com You can get a good idea how much things are if you need to buy them seperately. I see good 390's for $200 all the time complete but needing a rebuild. I'd also recommend looking for a replacement S code while your at it but if you find a good used core get it. DSC is a good source for parts and blocks and such. Dennis has very good prices. Not cheap but fairly priced and sells quality parts. He also sells heads intakes etc...ready to go as well as everyting else you need. He has all the odd stuff others do not. The only 68 mustangs that came with the 428 were the 68 1/2 CJ mustangs. But a 428 would be what I'd recommend if the budget allows. It's more than the stocker 390 but will have a higher resale value than a junkyard 390 not to mention the kick. The original S code would help resale as well and fetch a bit more than the 428 because it's "correct" to those that this matters to but will need to be correct date coded as well which can be a PIA. Sounds like you want this for a driver though so see what you can find. Some good books to get for reading are Steve Christ's "how to rebuild big block ford engines" and George Reid's "ford engine parts interchange" Both of these will disscuss the differences of the FE blocks and parts and explain the casting numbers and date codes and how to read and rebuild them. There are too many guy's out there waiting for your hard earned cash to sell you crap parts and tell you it's a SUPER COBRA JET HIGH PERFORMANCE HIGH NICKLE CONTENT LEMANS 427 HIGHRISER TUNNELRAM POLICE INTERCEPTOR etc.....you get the idea. Ask qusetions as you go and try to find the books I've listed. Perhaps some members might have some links for you also to check out. I have a few and will find them for you. You will want to learn about stock cyl bores, overbore and what the different blocks can be safely bored to. This will save you hassles and $$$ at the machine shop. Do it right and you'll be rewarded with a good running engine you can enjoy. Sorry to be long winded...I'm a little gassy today. G.

G,

Thanks for the advice. I had ordered the book by Christ but the other also sounds like it will be very useful. I noticed last night that there are many online sites which have the names and addresses, phone numbers of junkyards throughout Indiana that are close or up to several hours away. I could send them emails as well but what is the likelihood that many of these guys know what they have. I suppose the best deals are often where the guy doesn't know the potential value of what he has. Years ago (25 or so) it used to be I could just walk into a junkyard, look for the part, remove it myself, and then barter with the owner till we agreed upon price. It was usually some gnarly looking guy with a couple of really mean looking dogs who could look pretty intimidating. But that was long ago and faraway (Canada actually). Anyway, Another question. A number of people on this forum and past messages I've read have said that it would be better to go with the 428. Isn't it a lot less likely to run across a 428? Were all 428's S code or was there such a thing as a 428 2V? Maybe I'm asking dumb questions and should wait till the books come.

Have to say that its nice to get some really helpful comments without listening to people who just want to put you down and make you realize you don't know much.

Cheers,

Rob

Robin, Richard has some good advice about looking for a entire car. You never know and may come across something. Off the top of my head I don't think there was a 2bbl 428 offered as the 428 was the performance engine that kind of took the place of the expensive 427. Ford was looking for a budget performance engine and the 428 was it. Yes they are a little harder to come by but they are out there. I'd also recommend trying to find a complete long or short block to try to save some money. Now the 428 will be more expensive than finding a $200 390. Most 428 short blocks are $1000 to 2000 some are rebuilt and some not and longblocks a little more. But thats just a basic comparison. As you read the books and become more familer you will understand how to ID engines and components for the different years and displacments. This site is a must read www.428cobrajet.org This is the CJ registry and an excellent source of info and seeing the different components of the 428 CJ and SCJ engines. Also some good reading about the two. Your very smart reading up on things first before diving in as this is an expensive hobby. Another good forum is the Ford FE forum at network 54 www.fordfe.com So good luck and I'll keep a look out for a 428 and pass info along to you. Oh and the mustang 428 cars were R, Q and P codes not S codes and started in 68 1/2 and were in the Mustangs, Shelby's, LTD police cars, Galaxies, Fairlanes and some I think in Tbirds to name a few. Mercury had their line of cars as well. So ask questions as you go and find things out. Good luck and that stang sounds like a nice one. G.

Richard and G,

I agree that it might be easier (and cheaper) to buy the whole car but then one needs room to put it at least until the engine is removed. I have the driveway but then the garage is taken up with the mustang and a lot of storage. Unfortunately the house is on a crawlspace so storage is at a premium. I am phoning junkyards in Indiana to see what they have. There are some nice sites that list them by state. I think that

It must be possible (through Ford) to find out all the models that 390 and 428's came in. The list for 428's is a lot shorter and other blocks will work for a 390 as well. I understand that compression dropped to 9.5 :1 in 69 but could these still be bumped up by simply milling the heads? Someone in another post also mentioned the issue of compatible engine mountings?

The 428 sounds fine but the expense might be prohibitive if a block costs that much. A 4 speed tranny would be nice too but thats probably even rarer and could be added after the fact.

There are many older cars in the Auto trader, possibly looking at the issue for this area could come up with some older cars with the right motor. Thanks again for being generous with your time on these psotings.

Rob

Rob, first firgure a good 428 block will run around $400-800 depending on if it's a std 428 or CJ block. This is just for the block. This is also going by DSC's pricing and you might do better and come across something though. A 390 might be a better alternative cash wise and you can put a 428 crank in it to make a 410. Port the heads and get a nice cam, intake and carb and rebuild it and you should have a nice 390. This is way cheaper than a 428 and for the most part just as good and 400 HP is very doable. Early FE blocks (64 and earlier) have 2 bolt motor mounts and the 65 and later the 4 bolt. You can easily convert later mounts to fit an early block if needed. You can also use steel shim head gaskets to bump the comp ratio up a bit if needed before milling the heads. DSC sells them for 390's and 428/427's for $30 a set. Toploaders can be found in good condition fairly cheap but take Richards warning as well advised. A 5sp Tremec conversion is also a nice option as well and can be done easily. Either way it sounds like things are moving along nicely for you. Take your time and look at a few different engines and compare what they have vs the price. Most FE engines have been rebuilt a few times and some have a interesting assortment of parts. The casting numbers will tell most of the story as far as what parts are in the engines you look at. Most guy's will have no problem taking a head off or the oil pan for you to inspect the bore and internals. The ones who won't might have something to hide so be careful. Good luck and let us know how you make out.

Glenn.

Glenn, Richard,


Thanks. I got a copy of the Christ book today and spent a few hours looking it over. Lots of good information. Given my budget, or lack thereof, I may have to settle for the 390 but could certainly get good hp out of it. I'll still keep an eye out for a 428 but right now under $500 to get started is all I could afford. My first kid (of three) just started college and we are determined that she not have a ton of debt when she gets out so we're paying it all (which is making money pretty tight).

I had mentioned several times that I was not sure I could recognize suitable models or years in a junkyard that might have candidate engines. There are some great websites that show pictures of all the ford models by year with engine info; very helpful!

As a matter of interest if I wanted to get the right date code 390 what would be involved? I've heard several people say that it has to be within three months of production or something to that affect?

Everything you guys have said so far, and what I've read suggests that it is always better if you can see the motor working (as in buying an old beater) or disassembled so you can check wear and damage yourself.

We just had our first snow fall today here in Indiana so I probably won't be wandering any junkyards for a while. Many are online or at least have a phone number to call. My job takes me a lot into rural areas and I have seen some larger older junkyards in the middle of nowhere that might be less picked over.

An interesting option on my mustang that is very rare, is a tilt fold away steering column. Pretty cool.

Rob

A date code engine will be a harder find and take some time to search for but see what you can find. I've seen people (and still do) search for years for correct dated parts. And a running engine is by far the best find. Now as you get into the books you will notice some FE/FT blocks share the same casting numbers. This is where you will need to check the bore and crank stroke etc....of the engine to verify what it is. No biggie but it can get a little confusing. So as good as a running engine is to find it's also good to know what's inside as well. I've had some real cobbled junk over the years. Mismatched rods, pushrods even pistons! found in running engines. But that is easy enough to correct with the right parts. I would not get too hung up on the date code thing. Maybe you can find a nice running engine to use then look for a correct date code engine as time and money allow. At least you can drive and enjoy the car as you decide which to pursue. That is unless a correct date code engine comes your way.....then grab it! G.

POTAMOGETON,CANT ACCESS THIS SITE FROM WORK, EMAIL ME AT GFUGGITI@KLEINISD.NET FOR A FE MOTOR. THANKS

Hey Rob, I have 1968 390 That I ran in my mach 1 for a few years that I just pulled out a few weeks ago. I actually thought it was 1968 428, but when I checked the bore, It was a standard 390. Anywase, I would like to sell it. Let me know if your interested.
- Nick
(HockersN@msoe.edu)