Thread: cylinder head question

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ok as you all know from my previous post i just embarked on my first Ford [a '65 Galaxie]. when i was building my Chevy's i was told by a respectable machinest that if i planned to run the motor on pump gas i needed hardened valve seats put in or damage to the valves could result. is this true? i know you can add a lead addative to the fuel but that would be a expensive for a car i plan to use as a daily driver also i i was to get heads off of a later model FE [not sure what year gas changed] that ran off of unleaded fuel would that solve my problem or would those heads not fit my 352? i think it may just be cheaper to have hardened valve seats put in the heads i already have what do yall think?

You'll have to thank Bob Parmenter for this answer, which cleared the whole thing up for me.

When you weld one piece of steel to another piece of steel, the joint must be clean and free of foreign material to make a good weld.

When tetraethyl lead was added to gasoline up through 1971, it acted as a foreign material between the valve face and the valve seat, effectively "dirtying-up" the joint so that no welding could take place.

Current pump fuels have no lead in them, so there is nothing in the fuel to prevent the valve and seat from doing a little welding everytime they come together. This doesn't happen quickly, but rather over a period of time, with a little spot weld here and a little spot weld there which then effectively tears a little of the iron from the valve seat until the seat recesses down into the combustion chamber.

The question would be whether it's less expensive to bolt on '72-up heads or have seats installed in your heads.

Some other members on this board are much more familiar with FE motors and can tell you is there is a problem with fitment of the later heads, but as far as I know, an FE is an FE.

that was a great way of putting it thanks
i think that i will just put the money into the existing heads i know a good machine shop

tyler, you should also spring for some quality stainless valves from a respected manufacturer such as Manley or Stainless Industries....
http://www.manleyperformance.com/products.html

Don't forget if your swapping to a bigger cam match the valve springs to it. OEM springs,retainers,locks were for the most part desgined for under .500 lift. Some 427's being the exception here. Cheap insurance to install new ones. You see one upgrade leads to another and more money. It's an endless cycle....LOL.

G.

Just a thought, Tyler, but before you wrap up a bunch of money in seats, guides, valves, etc it might be in your best interests to consider a set of aluminum heads. A friend of mine has a set of Edelbrock heads on his 410, they work great and also let you get away with a bit more compression.

i think im gonna look at new heads and see what they cost i went to my local auto parts store yesterday and asked if they could get heads for my 352 they said yes and they are only like $450 now my only question is do these new heads have hardened valve seats? if they do then this would be the way for me to go b/c of price. im not too worried about performance with this car i just want something i can drive everyday and take to college with me all i lan to do is headers, intake, exaust, and a holley of some type [havent decided yet] the heads im looking at are made by American Cylinder Head and if i could get those for $450 thats about how much i would pay to have the hardened seats put in the old heads

If you use the old heads it will take 100,000 miles of unleaded to create any problems ...I've ran heads for 50,000 miles when all this came about and pulled them off & sent to my machine shop ,To my suprise they were not bad .. Putting them on and FE you must have a restored classic and probally won't drive it 5,000 miles a year so thats 20 years !!!!

actually the reason im so worried about the heads is because im only 17 and this is going to be my daily driver, this car has to get me through highschool and college. i also have a few racehorses that i train so i do lots of traveling up and down the east coast. this car has to last me awhile haha.
thanks
Tyler

I would think that a machine shop could put hardened seats into your stock heads for far less then a new set, i ran my mustang for a long time with lead additive on a fairly irregular basis, and it stayed together, also the later FE heads are poorflowing and low compression heads that you get in the 70's out of the trucks so i would avoid that as much as possible with that heavy of a car good luck

Steven

Steven, The D2-AA truck FE heads are the same exact casting as the C8-H except for the induction hardened seats in the D2's. C8's were used on lots of 352,390,428's and were Ford's bread and butter heads. Both have the same size chambers and valves. How could they be poor flowing and low compression? Just curious....

G.


G.

well i stand corrected then, i figured they would have demised much like every other performance in the 70's, how is their flow compared to the "GT" heads that came on the HiPo mustangs?

Steven

Well depending on the head casting there was not much difference between the GT and std FE heads. The GT exaust bolt pattern was different and maybe a slight chamber cc difference. Valves were std 2.02 In and 1.55 Ex. Now if you compare these to say the C8OE-N 428 CJ heads there is quite a differnece. Besides larger valves the CJ head exaust port is straighter, bigger volume and higher positioned relative to the head surface. These things combined helped exhaust velocity. The port opening measures almost the same but is postioned differently on the head and the internal passages are quite different. Now you might have been thinking of some of the FT heads. Those did have quite large chambers and smaller exhaust valves. Also the heat crossover is towards the center not offset like FE heads. The FT intake crossover was matched to these heads. These FT heads were common to the 330, 361 and 391. The 360, 390 truck engines were all given the FE style heads and intakes.


G.

I just started rebuilding 429 and my heads can't be rebuild. can I use heads form a 460 and do they have to be from the same year? by the way the 429 i out a 1972 t-bird

your 460 heads will work just fine