Thread: Did I buy a 428 and get a 390 Thunderbird?

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The 428 has a added weight on the harmonic balancer also (external balance)

Ron

I tend to agree with some of the comments about "does it really matter?" So it isn't (maybe) a 428, big deal. Why are you so hung up on those extra 38 cubes? If you figure it diminishes the value of the car, I am not a purist, so that is only something you can know. But as far as the car being usable and just as much fun with the 390, I can't see where there is any difference.

Not to insult your car, but it is a '66 T bird, not something as rare and expensive as a Hemi Cuda or COPO car. It is still a great car, so just have the engine work done, drive it, and enjoy it. If you want it to be a 428, tell onlookers at shows and cruises that's what it is. They won't know the difference, and we all tell little fibs about our cars sometimes.


Don

Originally Posted by shoprat

The 428 has a added weight on the harmonic balancer also (external balance)

Ron

That's the SCJ only. It used the "cookie cutter" crank spacer to put the missing crank weight pad on the nose to balance the heavier LeMans rods. It also used a larger dia and thicker harmonic balancer from the 427. If you put a CJ and SCJ crank side by side you'll see the CJ unit has a extra weight on the cranks 7th counterweight. The SCJ does not. Also the CJ and SCJ flywheels have different weight pads but as mentioned both and the std 428 are all external balance. The CJ and std 428's used a FE stock balancer with another exception. The 428 PI's I believe used the larger dia 427/SCJ harmonic balancers. But it's been a few years and the mind ain't what it used to be. LOL. I'm pretty sure my old 67 Shel had one tho...

I'll agree with everyones train of thought....if the 390 is a good running engine enjoy it and leave well enough alone. The 66 bird is a wonderful ride so enjoy. If a 428 is what you must have you can shop and build a shortblock and change it in the future. It's next to impossible as mentioned to tell a 428 from a 390 from the outside anyway. But that is your decision.

G.

and shed light on the mind of an amateur. The GENERAL principal I am going by is that if the car was built a Q code, I would like it to in fact measure up to that. Since civilization does not forward itself on slipshod satisfactions, I will troop ahead with the goal of consistancy in the car. Had I purchased the car with a Z code and it ended up with a 428, I would have addressed that equally. So for me, it has absolutely nothing to do with appearances. Most cars have a hood that closes. I take the state of my interior life as seriously as I do the exterior- there is nothing worse than a hog in earrings, and the car should be truthful, so to speak. No it is not a show car, that is certain. And I am not a Super Model, but I am obliged not only to look my best, but to BE my best. And that is akin to the well-known correlation between people (most especially men) and their cars. Seldom is found a car that appears perfectly on the outside and open the hood and it is a tangled mess.

Okay, the weekend effort will be to produce a piston, and a reading of the flexplate contents and crankshaft ID. Once I have that, I will be thrilled to hear your comments if by than you have not wearied of the discussion. I see so much generosity and patience with you more experienced enthusiasts and that is just so nice!

Since I have an aircleaner with an old 428 decal on it, I am fully prepared to scrape it off if needed. I know that is important to have fun, but that can wait.

Another great site that can help answer all your questions is www.fordfe.com. Its full of some great people that are knowledgable and patient.

I will be thrilled to hear your comments if by than you have not wearied of the discussion. I see so much generosity and patience with you more experienced enthusiasts and that is just so nice!


I can only comment from my own perspective, and would not ever attempt to tell another car enthusiast how he or she should approach the hobby. That being said, I think you are making a mountain out of a molehill on this subject. While I understand that you paid for one thing and possibly got another, that is no reason to have this be the monumental issue it has become for you.

But then again, I have never really understood the hardcore restorers who are so hung up on whether a car has the exact number of threads showing on the ball joints and if the correct length cotter pin was used on the draglink. I have too much regiment in my daily work life, so cars are my escape from that and I take them for what they are........fun, and a toy.

The other thing, as I mentioned in my earlier post, is that you are talking about a 1966 T Bird here, not a historically significant aluminum frontend muscle car. Please understand that is not being said to in any way knock the car, but it is what it is. The car is just as valuable with the 390 probably as with the 428, or pretty close. Why beat yourself up over something as insignificant as this minor difference? It is probably a great automobile, so fix the heads and enjoy it for what it is.

You sound like a person who is very precise in every aspect of your life, and who is driven toward perfection. I was an "A" personality too, until I had my first heart attack at 43. Then I realized that life is a little easier on you if you roll with the punches and compromise a little. Loosen up and enjoy the car, otherwise you are going to drive yourself nuts over those lost 38 cubic inches.

I hope this post comes across the way it was intended. I just think as a newcomer to this hobby you should learn to have fun with it and not make it something that has to be so D*** perfect in every respect. Cars are cars.


Don

well said Itoldyouso

Okay, I am back- the 428 was a 390 after all. This was clear from the crank and the absence of that weight thingy on the ring gear. I want to replace it with a 428 engine so I will be working on that, but I would have a question about my heads, which are in the shop. They are 390 of course, do they fit a 428? And the intake manifold is c6ae9425-g. I resist boring out the 390 for some reason, but I won't say why because that will irritate Itoldyouso.

First of all, I apologize if my post came across the wrong way. Maybe I was a little short with you, and that was wrong. I'm sorry for that. Sometimes when we go back over something we wrote we find we would do it differently if given the chance. It was rude of me to do it the way I did.

The only reason I posted what I did was that I was trying to say I felt you were getting hung up on something that is very insignificant in the overall scheme of things, and that you should just relax and enjoy the car for what it is and the pleasure you are getting from it. However, in reflecting on the situation, I guess this 428 thing is important to you, so who am I to say that is wrong.

The car will not be noticably different performance wise with the 428 vs the 390, but in rereading the thread, that doesn't seem to be your goal anyway. You bought it as a 428 and that is what you want it to be. That is understandable.

One of the Ford experts on here will be able to tell you about the head swap, I'm sure. Hope this clears up any hard feelings between us.

Don

Itolduso Don, I really did not take offense, but let us face it, it is obvious by now I lean towards luxury muscle. I found my husbands 1969 z-28 to be awful, with its roll up windows and lack of air conditioning. So you see? For some, that car is just the greatest thing and I can't bear it! Thank you for your comments, really. I know TBirds are not at all fashionable, but I think the only reason my husband would help me it all is IF it had been 428, that interested him a bit. I told him that in exchange for a Jims 120 could he help me with the car and he said he would, and now I have little to offer! He is guiding me along anyway of course and gave me a pan of gas and the manifold to clean - so I march along, though I absolutely hate the gas and the pan and am wondering why has not some woman invented lemon fresh gas or at least spring scented. The gas melted off my Playtex Living Gloves, and thank God I do not wear fake nails! I am going to look for a 428 to put in there, so any one who could give input on that?

I almost bought a new T Bird in '66, but bought a new GTO instead. My girlfriend at the time was not real happy with that decision, because we were getting into the nightclub scene, and she thought the T Bird was a better car to make an "entrance."

Speaking of T Birds, in 1963 I was a lot boy at the local Ford Dealership, and my job was to detail the cars and wash the others. One day a pretty light yellow T Bird showed up on the lot, and had real wire wheels. It was a very nice car. Anyway, I started it up to take it to wash it, and when it fired up it sounded totally different than every other Bird on the lot, so I popped the hood. It had a totally chromed 406 Ford with TriPower on it. When I say totally chromed, every accessory under the hood was chromed, as well as most of the engine. Come to find out it was a factory showcar as part of the Ford Caravan, and it was last years model, so it was being sold on the lot.

I wanted that car in the worst way, but on a lot boys salary, it was only a dream. I wonder if that car is still out there somewhere, because I bet it is worth a fortune now.

Enjoy your T Bird.


Don

I thought my old 308 gtbi was high maintenance!

You can use the 390 heads and intake. The std 428's that came in the birds shared many of the same parts as the 390's. When your the heads back you'll see a casting number between the center 2 spark plugs ex: C6AE-6090-J. This number will decode the heads but they should work fine otherwise. Then you need to decide if the 428 needs to be a 66 casting or if any 428 will do. If your trying to numbers match the engine to the car this can be a painstaking process. But it can be done and you need to do your homework. If you just want a 428 it's pretty easy to find parts. Block, crank, pistons and flexplate are the basic items you'll need. You can reuse the 390 rods if you choose. They are the same as the 428's. All the rest is std rebuild items. You can even sell the 390 block,crank etc...to offset some of the costs.

G.