Thread: first run after rebuild

Tweet

Hello people!
I wanted to tell you about my succesfull first run of my recently rebuild Fe motor!

you can find pictures here: http://stommieteiten.spaces.live.com/

(yes, it's in dutch...but the pictures tell you enough, I think)

I'll be honest with you, it didn't start right away on the first try...sorry, i had the ignition, eh, excactly 180 degrees off!
anyway, once this was put right, it did start right from the first try!

One question raised though; even though everything seems pretty much working as it should, it sounds like an old diesel! Don't get me wrong, it runs very smoothly, in idle as well as slightly higher rpms, but I wonder if this has anything to do with it still being fresh and very tight?
besides the valves, I can't think of anything that would create that rithmic rattling noise from within the motor.

Because of the fact that this is my maiden build, I'm really not sure how to label this, "problem, chubby!" or "chill mate, it's allrite!"????

There shouldn't be any rattling inside the engine.... Can you isolate it a bit where the rattling is coming from, top of the engine in the valve train or deeper inside???

Ya know what I'm thinkin', right Dave?

Did you torque the rod caps?

Tommie: I think you've got some problems. There should not be any rattling. How is the temp and oil pressure?


Don

I can't really pinpoint it excactly... I put my ear on the valvecovers; no real noise there...it's coming from deep inside...my guess is from somewhere around the crank...yes I did torque both the rod and main capbolts, both being new from arp...and several times (loosening and retorquing up to 5 times)...(they were too tight at first!!)
from your reaction I think I'm going to drop the pan again! Besides the caps and bolts there, I should probably also check the crankscraper, maybe that's the problem.(was too narrow at first, maybe it still is off by a small amount)
any ideas what I'm looking for? a loose cap or bolt?

Don: It's running quite hot, quite fast, but with 11 to 1 CR that should be expected, right? (hence the electric waterpump and new radiator) I don't have real figures on the oilpressure, other than that it flows...

Tom

PS:
ow, and there's no noise at all, when i crank the engine on the starter, it's only when it runs!

Piston slop or slap or whatever the technical term is. I do not think thats easy to check though,I would do as the others suggest,drop the pan is a good start. Cam maybe ,but you would be able to detect valve train noise easily.Sounds like some investigation is in order.Loose fly wheel/flex plate bolts?Loose dampner ?Bad water pump?Also the possibility of something vibrating against the block/frame from the install?Start a checklist of all possible causes of that noise,start with the most likely and easy checks and work your way to the hardest ,most unlikely causes.

This doesn't sound too good to me. As was said before the engine shouldn't make any noise except out of the tail pipes! If it were upper end noise I would ask if the lifters were primed before installation. If it truely is a bottom end noise then I'd suspect loose clearances. If the rods were over torqued then possibly there was some damage done to the rods or the rod bearings to cause this. Over torquing, then loosing them, then retorquing to the correct specs may be causing the clearance issues due to rod bolt stretch or bearing distortion. It all depends on how tight they were made in the first place. I'd check the obvious first like loose bolts on the converter, flywheel or maybe the accessories on the front of the engine (you never know). Then check that crankscraper for clearance and/or interference. If these things don't fix the problem you'll have to pull it down and check clearances internally. Good luck and I hope its an easy fix.

blueoval: yes, the lifters were primed. on the accessoiry-side of the engine, I have only the timingchain (checked through the fuelpumphole, no visual damage or stretch in the chain), the waterpump (no mechanical drive, it's electric and works fine if runned singularly, just to be sure), the dampner (nothing loose either) and the generator, wich runs quite neatly , actually)

On the back, there's nothing besides the flexplate and the starter. I had to mount it to the transmission, to get the starter on, but otherwise there's no real connection there...(no driveshaft nor converter)...
so if the tranny comes of and I don't find scratchmarks from the flexplate, the next step will be that the pan will have to come off again and I will have to check both the rods and mains as well as that scraper...

One thing though; with a noise like that, there's bound to be something visible to the eye, right? I mean, the noise was mechanical, so something must have been bouncing around (figuratively speaking, I hope!!), so there should be marks where the failure occurred, right?

I have to say, it's quite frustrating to know there's something i must have done wrong, but not knowing what! I really thought I triple checked everything...

Originally Posted by Tommie

One thing though; with a noise like that, there's bound to be something visible to the eye, right? I mean, the noise was mechanical, so something must have been bouncing around (figuratively speaking, I hope!!), so there should be marks where the failure occurred, right.

NO not unless you disassemle the motor to see.

Originally Posted by shawnlee28

NO not unless you disassemle the motor to see.

that's what i meant...after taking the pan off...either bolts, nuts, crank, rod or bearing should show visibly to have taken punishment, right?

Originally posted by Tommie:
"it sounds like an old diesel!"

This says one thing to me. Detonation. The cam you used is too short for the static compression ratio or you failed to set the squish properly or you have a really bad load of fuel or all three.

I hope I'm wrong.

Originally Posted by Tommie

that's what i meant...after taking the pan off...either bolts, nuts, crank, rod or bearing should show visibly to have taken punishment, right?

After you take the mains off and rod caps off ,all the wear damage /noise is inbetween those ,not on the outside.Unless you diassemble those parts not visually inspect the outer surface,better do like TECH said and check the math on compression first,spark knock ,ping will sound just like a diesel motor.rods and main bearings have more of a dull thud knock sound ,than a diesel ping clatter sound. Can you take a sound clip or vid clip with sound?Alot of the guys here, will be able to tell real fast what it is,or atleast narrow it down more quickly.

If you have had the engine running for a while you may see metal in the oil upon draining. Look for those tell tail greyish silver streaks or maybe some very small metal fragments in the drain pan. A magnet is very helpful here if you have one. Run your magnet around in the pan to see if it picks up anything. Moly prelube from the cam can look like metal in the oil so the magnet will confirm it. Unless you have a catastrophic failure such as a broken rod bolt you won't see any damage until you disassemble the entire engine and look at the bearings. Hope this help!

Also cant you look at the spark plugs for little metal fragments,with a magnifier glass and see the rusults of detonation,or does that take miles and miles ?