Thread: Good Ol' 410

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Hello everyone. I am new to Club Hot Rod. I've been looking through the forums for a while now and realized that you guys definately know your stuff. I am a college student at North Dakota State University majoring in agronomy...I know, North Dakota? I get that alot, but i grew up here.

Anyways, I have an old Mercury Park Lane with a 410 sitting in the trees at my old farm. Its been sitting there for some time. I'm somewhat new at this rebuilding thing. Is it worth it to pull the engine and rebuild it? I was thinking of maybe puting it into a smaller car when finished such as a cougar or something. I love tinkering with engines. I'm just not sure if the engine is stuck and/or if I can fix it up to run. I'm sure the mice have gotten to it...they love wires! Any input and advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!!!

well it can be rebuilt long as it not busted in half or the bores are not to bad to be bored or the mains are not all burned up then it a money deal with the machine work and price for parts it will not be cheap to build up but can be done

Welcome TuffTrax,to CHR you came to a good place for information.

Richard

Hey , welcome to the club! I think it really depends on how much you can do yourself, or how much you want to spend. And the big ? is how bad the internals of the motor are. I would pull some stuff off, and see how bad it looks inside, then try to turn it by hand and see if its froze up. Shoot us some pics, we like those around here.

Thanks guys! As for the rebuild kit, can I just go with a 390 kit? I'm sure the 410 is simply a 390 with a 428 crank...correct me if im wrong. My buddy has some equipment for boring and honing. I think we can get that done. What does a 0.060 over bore make it out to be?

the pistons can be knock out or busted out wish i said i never done this but been there done that. just put to sleevs in a 400 pontiac from rust. they can hold there water. but if you never done this you have to watch what you do

Hey guys. Ive been trying to get some pics up, but it just won't quit snowing here. Its been flooding terribly and blizzard after blizzard...but it is ND. lol. Anyways, I haven't forgot about ya. Think I may have found a 66 Fairlane to put it in...hopefully all goes well...

TuffTrax
I had a 69 Mustang with a mild 410 in it, and it was alot of fun. GO for it. As far as rebuilding it, take your time and read and learn. It is not hard with the right tools and knowledge. The 410 pistons were different if I remember correctly.

FE
COPYRIGHT © 2000-2009 Stan Weiss — World Wide Enterprises

Cubic Inches Bore Stroke Rod Length Rod/Stroke Ratio Bore/Stroke Ratio
352 - Iron 4.000 3.500 6.540 1.8686 1.1429
359 - Iron 4.050 3.500 6.540 1.8686 1.1571
360 - Iron 4.050 3.500 6.540 1.8686 1.1571
361 - Iron 4.050 3.500 6.540 1.8686 1.1571
389 - Iron 4.050 3.780 6.489 1.7167 1.0714
390 - Iron 4.050 3.780 6.489 1.7167 1.0714
391 - Iron 4.050 3.780 6.489 1.7167 1.0714
406 - Iron 4.130 3.780 6.489 1.7167 1.0926
410 - Iron 4.050 3.980 6.489 1.6304 1.0176
427 - Iron 4.230 3.780 6.489 1.7167 1.1190
428 - Iron 4.130 3.980 6.489 1.6304 1.0377

The fact that the 390 and the 410 use the same rod length with a different stroke tells you that the pistons use a different compression height, so while 390 rings will probably work, 390 pistons will not, even though they're the same bore. A 0.060"-over 410 makes a 422. (4.110" x 3.98") This motor deserves a DynoSim. I'll work one up and post it.

The pistons will be the fly in the ointment. They'll be hard to find without being pricey, but in my opinion, if you can find all the parts to put together a 422, it'll peg the grin meter, particularly in a Fairlane with GT or GTA badges on the front fenders, depending on whether it's stick or auto. I drove one of these when they were new ('66). Fastest I ever drove on a public road, buried the speedo. As good as it could get in my opinion is to order up a Toploader from David Kee and build a 4-spd GT. I strongly suspect that you could send a few Chevies home with their tails between their legs. I did find some -17.4cc dishes for a 428 made by Ross. It's a possibility that they would be agreeable to cut the diameter to 4.110" for a +0.060" 410 motor. The 428 piston number is 99604, so call up Ross and see if they would cooperate. Read this paragraph on their FE page....."If you do not see the FE Ford series V8 engine pistons with the specs you need below, please visit our custom piston page and we will be glad to assist you with a custom set of pistons for your FE Ford or Mercury FE engine project."
http://www.campbellenterprises.com/r...ne_pistons.htm

Anyway, I'm gonna build this motor with the Ross 17.4cc dish pistons for this DynoSim.

410 block, bored 0.060".
410/428 crank, 3.980" stroke.
410 rods.
Ross (-17.4cc) dish pistons, 4.110" diameter, 1.675" compression height. With 72cc heads, these pistons will make 9.46:1 static compression ratio, just right for a street motor on pump gas.
Heads, Edelbrock aluminum #60069, 2.09" intake valves, 1.66" exhaust valves, 72cc chambers, 170cc intake runners.
Intake manifold, Edelbrock Performer RPM FE, part #7105 plain as cast or #71054 Enduroshine.
Carb, 850 CFM of your choice. Double pumper with a 4-spd. Vacuum secondaries with an automatic.
Large-diameter primary headers, long tube, equal-length, tuned. "X" pipe right behind the collectors, 2 1/2"/2 3/4" pipes to the rear through mufflers of your choice.
Cam, Crower 16255 hydraulic flat tappet, 280/288 degrees advertised, 224/232 degrees @ 0.050", Intake Centerline 104 degrees ATDC, Exhaust Centerline 112 degrees BTDC, Lobe Separation Angle (Lobe Center) 108, Theoretical valve lift intake 0.549", exhaust 0.560". Overlap 12 degrees @ 0.050". Timing events are: Intake opens 8 degrees BTDC, closes 36 ABDC, Exhaust opens 48 BBDC, closes 4 ATDC. Dynamic compression ratio with this cam and 9.46 static compression ratio is 8.3:1 (beautiful).
Stock block deck height, 10.170".
Piston deck height with Ross pistons, 0.017".
Ford M-6051-A427 0.040" compressed gaskets for squish of 0.057". If you want to tighten the squish up to 0.045", cut 0.012" off the decks for a block deck height of 10.158". The tighter squish will help the motor resist detonation in the event you get a bad load of fuel or could possibly allow it to run without detonation on a lesser grade of fuel (cheaper).

RPM HP TQ
1500 126 440
2000 179 470
2500 225 472
3000 285 500
3500 354 531
4000 407 535
4500 458 535
5000 500 521
5500 483 461
6000 456 400

Talk about a torque monster!!!!!!! I used this same cam in a 390 I simmed for JeffB2. He suggested it and it worked out so well that I used it on this sim. We used another half point of static compression ratio on Jeff's motor though and the DCR was a little high. In this motor, we're usin' 9.46 static, so the cam works out just right. This 422 motor should pull like Jack the Bear from idle to 6000. Paint the intake motor color and tell everybody it's a stock 390 with headers. And yes, this motor does actually pick up 215 hp from 3000 to 5000!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by techinspector1

The pistons will be the fly in the ointment. They'll be hard to find without being pricey, but in my opinion, if you can find all the parts to put together a 422, it'll peg the grin meter, particularly in a Fairlane with GT or GTA badges on the front fenders, depending on whether it's stick or auto. I drove one of these when they were new ('66). Fastest I ever drove on a public road, buried the speedo. As good as it could get in my opinion is to order up a Toploader from David Kee and build a 4-spd GT. I strongly suspect that you could send a few Chevies home with their tails between their legs. I did find some -17.4cc dishes for a 428 made by Ross. It's a possibility that they would be agreeable to cut the diameter to 4.110" for a +0.060" 410 motor. The 428 piston number is 99604, so call up Ross and see if they would cooperate. Read this paragraph on their FE page....."If you do not see the FE Ford series V8 engine pistons with the specs you need below, please visit our custom piston page and we will be glad to assist you with a custom set of pistons for your FE Ford or Mercury FE engine project."
http://www.campbellenterprises.com/r...ne_pistons.htm

Anyway, I'm gonna build this motor with the Ross 17.4cc dish pistons for this DynoSim.

410 block, bored 0.060".
410/428 crank, 3.980" stroke.
410 rods.
Ross (-17.4cc) dish pistons, 4.110" diameter, 1.675" compression height. With 72cc heads, these pistons will make 9.46:1 static compression ratio, just right for a street motor on pump gas.
Heads, Edelbrock aluminum #60069, 2.09" intake valves, 1.66" exhaust valves, 72cc chambers, 170cc intake runners.
Intake manifold, Edelbrock Performer RPM FE, part #7105 plain as cast or #71054 Enduroshine.
Carb, 850 CFM of your choice. Double pumper with a 4-spd. Vacuum secondaries with an automatic.
Large-diameter primary headers, long tube, equal-length, tuned. "X" pipe right behind the collectors, 2 1/2"/2 3/4" pipes to the rear through mufflers of your choice.
Cam, Crower 16255 hydraulic flat tappet, 280/288 degrees advertised, 224/232 degrees @ 0.050", Intake Centerline 104 degrees ATDC, Exhaust Centerline 112 degrees BTDC, Lobe Separation Angle (Lobe Center) 108, Theoretical valve lift intake 0.549", exhaust 0.560". Overlap 12 degrees @ 0.050". Timing events are: Intake opens 8 degrees BTDC, closes 36 ABDC, Exhaust opens 48 BBDC, closes 4 ATDC. Dynamic compression ratio with this cam and 9.46 static compression ratio is 8.3:1
Stock block deck height, 10.170".
Piston deck height with Ross pistons, 0.017".
Ford M-6051-A427 0.040" compressed gaskets for squish of 0.057". If you want to tighten the squish up to 0.045", cut 0.012" off the decks for a block deck height of 10.158".

RPM HP TQ
1500 126 440
2000 179 470
2500 225 472
3000 285 500
3500 354 531
4000 407 535
4500 458 535
5000 500 521
5500 483 461
6000 456 400

Talk about a torque monster!!!!!!! I used this same cam in a 390 I simmed for JeffB2. He suggested it and it worked out so well that I used it on this sim. We used another half point of static compression ratio on Jeff's motor though and the DCR was a little high. This 422 motor will pull like Jack the Bear from idle to 6000. Paint the intake motor color and tell everybody it's a stock 390 with headers.

With that kind of torque maybe a tire recommendation may be in order

Back in the early 80's when I built mine, it sounds similar to what Techinspector has set up and I was running high 11's in the quarter mile with a 3.50 trac loc and G 60 14 tires. If i could have made it hook up that number could have been lower.

410 pistons are still pretty easy to find. The truck 360 engines used the 410 piston from the factory. The higher pin height made the 360 a wonderful low compression slug. Anyway you can get em cast, hyper or forged. The 410 is a pretty popular combo these days still. I think Probe makes a 410 forged piston. Egge and Keith Black have some nice ones too. And Ross as Tech said sells a really nice forged piston. Shop and compare though. There are some good deals out there.

Originally Posted by JeffB2

With that kind of torque maybe a tire recommendation may be in order

I'd be thinkin' a narrowed housing and 18 inch Mickeys.....

Originally Posted by FFR428

410 pistons are still pretty easy to find. The truck 360 engines used the 410 piston from the factory. The higher pin height made the 360 a wonderful low compression slug. Anyway you can get em cast, hyper or forged. The 410 is a pretty popular combo these days still. I think Probe makes a 410 forged piston. Egge and Keith Black have some nice ones too. And Ross as Tech said sells a really nice forged piston. Shop and compare though. There are some good deals out there.

Hello..you may want to check with Mahale...for 410 pistons
..there forged & coated...very nice.. piston & moly ring kits from them run'n prox 500..for both...small end of FE rods will need to be narrowed to clear pin bosses ....companies are sell'n FE 390 to 410 ect cid stroker kits & using BB Chebby rods in the kits.....and have lowered the cost of these 410 pistons to Chebby prices...
Regards Daryl.

PS: My next project...is a 410...going all out & shoot'n for 550/600 HP
Quick skinny C6ME-A / 390 block ARP studded, all the block oil tricks ,.see Gessford's site for these tricks....EXCELLENT info & pics....Thanks George...we miss you! sir..enjoy your retirement ..
428 SCJ crank ( found NEW in Ford box in guys basement also with new Lemans rods he ordered in 1971 never used them.....got real lucky there... , Mahale forged pistons 10:1 comp, Isky roller cam..spec's to still figure..Any idea's from you FE guys on grind #'s i'd like to hear them.......Heads...Ed's RPM ...fully ported & match runners & chamber work / valve unshrouding ..polishing ect ect.. intake...not sure there yet... low rise single plane for sure..any idea's ?.......let 'em fly....thanks!
Regards Daryl