Thread: 390 Build Questions and performance

Tweet

Hello All,
I am new to this forum, but looks like there is a wealth of knowledge available for the taking.
I was wondering if anyone knows the pros and cons to blocking the exhaust crossover on an FE intake. I am going to be running an Edelbrock streetmaster 390 intake.
I have also followed some of the other threads and was wondering if anyone can give me some advice on my particular engine build. I currently have a 390 bored .060 over for ~401.2 cid. I rebuilt this about 15 years ago and can't remember all the particulars. I believe it was a sealed power kit that I used. I know the crank has been turned .010/.010 and I installed a slightly more aggressive than stock hydraulic flat tappet cam. I had new wrist pins installed. This engine is being used in a 1967 Ford Fairlane 500 with C6 Trans and 3.25 rear gears @ ~3400 lbs. I have been accumulating parts to rebuild for more performance and drivability. I currently have new Edelbrock 60069 heads that I plan on port matching with the streetmaster 390 intake. I purchased a set of Erson Roller rockers 1.76 ratio, edelbrock al water pump, FAST XFI fuel injection system with FAST dual sync dist, WILSON 4150 throttle body ~1136 CFM, MSD 6A ignition and aeromotive A1000 pump. I am going to weld injector bungs in the streetmaster intake and use 36# Bosch injectors. First of all I would like to know if the experts here think I can safely get 450 to 500 HP from this combination using stock rods crank and pistons since I am not using any kind of power adder. What CAM recommendations do you recommend with this combination with fuel injection to have a good drivable street motor that will idle? I don't believe the block as been decked. As far as the SCR, here is the info I have so far. Items with question marks are guesstimates. If any of you know more accurate numbers please let me know. I believe the sealed power pistons had valve reliefs cut but I don’t know the actual volume. I am sure they were just a stock .060 over kit.
Bore: 4.112 Stroke: 3.784”
Head Gasket Compressed thickness 0.038"
Head gasket Bore 4.400" bore
Head Gasket Volume 9.90 cc volume
Head Chamber Size 72 cc
Deck Height ??.060??

Displacement = (4.112 ÷ 2)2 x 3.14 x 3.784 x 16.387 =823.0504
Head Gasket space = (4.400 ÷ 2)2 x 3.14 x 0.038 x 16.387064 =my calc 9.46367 edelbrock says 9.90
Deck Height space = (4.112 ÷ 2)2 x 3.14 x Deck Height?.060? x 16.387064 = 13.05?
Compressed Volume = Head Gasket space + Deck Height space +
Piston Top volume + Combustion chamber volume = ~94.10 or ~94.95
Uncompressed Volume = Compressed Volume + Displacement =~917.1504 or 918.0004
Compression Ratio = Uncompressed volume ÷ Compressed volume =~9.746:1 or ~9.668:1

Here is the info I have so far. I guessed the Deck Height and didn’t enter anything for valve reliefs in the pistons. This may at least give a ball park idea. I came up with 9.76:1 or 9.668:1 SCR.

Any advice is greatly appreciated.
Thanks, Josh

JMO, but you have quite a mismatch. First, with all the induction hardware, why are you going to use a streetmaster? A streetmaster will really wake up an 390, but even if you do the suggested porting, it will poop out around 5000-5500rpm. They are great for velocity but have too small of runners to do any heavy breathing. Use a Edelbrock Victor instead. Already has unmachined bosses. You also have too much induction for a .060^ 390 with a step up from stock cam. You will leave hp at the starting line with that setup on a 390. I would look for a good 428 or a reverse 105 block. Don't get sucked into buying some 'rare' 427 ($$$). New blocks can be had for not much more. Stock rods and crank will work. Ditch the cast pistons. You can find some good used forged if you look around. Headers are a must to match the induction.

Lastly, if you just decide to go with a big S intake and an autolite 4100, pls send me your leftovers.

I would like to see 11to1 on your C/R and have your Ed Heads Professionally ported. The Street Master should work. You will need bigger injectors for for 500hp range. More like 40lb to 42lb. 36lb is too small. Here is a calculator to figure that out for ya! http://www.gtsparkplugs.com/InjectorCalc.html

For a cam shaft.... Solid or Solid Roller should get you there!

Also having your Deck @ zero to your pistons would be a plus! Here is some more info for ya: http://www.hotrod.com/webonly_january/index.html

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles..._fe/index.html

Hope that helps ya out. Good Luck!

Originally Posted by HRTATK1

Hello All,
I was wondering if anyone knows the pros and cons to blocking the exhaust crossover on an FE intake. I am going to be running an Edelbrock streetmaster 390 intake.

Thanks, Josh

Block them off! If you are running EFI on your ride.... No need to worry. It should help on making your HP #'s!
BUT if you run a carb....Then thats a different story. Your carb could ice up on cold days!

Yuppers, what Wes said...I guess my only concern would be the CR getting up in the 11:1 area.... Never have ran an FE quite that hi, but with the aluminum heads, maybe pump premium will still work???? Don't know, good question for Wes or Barry.......

Sure does sound like one heck of a nice engine! anxious to hear the performance numbers when it's done!!! Is this for your '67, Josh???

Well Dave, In a 3400lb car, C6 (Slush Box) and Aluminum Heads..... I feel it would run just fine on pump premium! Also with a Zero deck, you have much less of a chances of detonation too. I wouldn't want to see the C/R less then 10to1 for the power that he wants to get out of it. JMHO

Kewl!!! If everything else is done right, the higher compression should work fine.....and more compression means more power!!!!

Originally Posted by TxRanger

JMO, but you have quite a mismatch. First, with all the induction hardware, why are you going to use a streetmaster? A streetmaster will really wake up an 390, but even if you do the suggested porting, it will poop out around 5000-5500rpm. They are great for velocity but have too small of runners to do any heavy breathing. Use a Edelbrock Victor instead.

The Victor would be a little much for something like that. I would run an Ed RPM over the Victor. Check out Jay Browns Dynoing of the intakes. You might be a little surprised. JMHO

I think the combo sounds just fine. Good candidate for a small solid flat tappet if you're cutting costs - or a roller.

The Streetmaster will be just dandy as an EFI conversion part - most all EFI intakes are single plane. Works good at part throttle due to the electronics, and makes good power upstairs. I've done a dual plane EFI once, but they're kinda weird to do and to look at.

I think the 36 lb injectors will be OK. I'd rather push a smaller injector with higher fuel pressure than run a bigger one on a car that sees a lot of idle and part throttle time. They tune & drive nicer. You won't know until you are monitoring duty cycle on the running piece's software.

I decided on the streetmaster intake based on all of Jay Browns testing and a few other reviews I have read. I also talked to Jay Brown and he thought the Victor would be much too large for what I am trying to do. If I was running a 428 crank it would be different. I was also worried about hood clearance on my farilane with the Victor.

The one think I don't know is how performance results from a dry intake compare to that of a wet intake. I know edelbrock recommends a 1" space for the Carb, but is this really necessary for a dry intake with a Throttle body?

The 36# injector choice was based on a conversation I had with FAST. They told me that these were more than adequated for my application. I must say I was originally going to run 42# ones until they told me that was much larger than I needed.

From other research I am going to run Keith Black Forged Pistons with SCAT H-Beams. WIthout Decking I should be running Around ~10.3:1. My goal is to run this on pump gas and hope that is a reality with the proper porting, cam and EFI.

Yes this is going to be used on my 67 Fairlane 500.

Can I get by with a hyd roller cam, or must I go with a solid roller for this power range? Block is already setup for hyd.

Hopefully with Barry's help and porting expertise I can make this beast a reality.

Thanks for all the input. If I forgot anything please let me know.

Josh

As far as the exhaust crossover, I asked a stupid question. If I would have look at my heads, I would have realized that the Edelbrock heads don't have a port for the exhaust crossover. Problem solved, question answered.

Thanks for the advice.

If you're working with Barry on the build, you sure are sourcing one of the best in the business when it comes to go-fast FE's!!!!

However, personally I think you should just give up on the whole project and give me the Fairlane!!!!!!!!!!!! Just look at all the money you'd save!!!!!!!

Dave, I appreciate the offer, but if I give up on the FE and Fairlane, what will my wife do with all that extra money? I don't want her to have problems with her feet from all that shopping.

If I could go back 20 years when this project began and could find great resources like this forum and people like Barry and Jay, I would have just gone to Barry and had him build me an FE. Since I have already lost one lifes fortune and have been working on the second I figure I should try and do it right. Of course my project keeps evolving and more cost is being added. I am at least getting smarter and talking to the experts before completing the project.
This engine will go in a car similar to the one that I remember begging my dad to take me in when I was young and now my 3 yr old son does the same. I still have the original car, but I am placing this one in an original 289 car because the body requires so much less work than my dad's. Unfortunately the first 390 I rebuilt when I was 14 had a lifter come apart and ruined the new cam and block. I guess my dad felt bad for me and bought me a overhaul kit for Christmas so I found a jasper rebuild out of a truck that I ended up starting from and it required .060 over bore for clean up. I still run this engine in my dads fairlane to keep it functional. This is the base for my new build and now with modern technology and the help of builders who understand the FE, I hope to give my fairlane new life. I have been amazed at how many people that rode in my Dad's 2V 390 fairlane purchased their own because it ran so well. If only my dad and his brother could have talked my Grandpa into a 427 car!!!

Well, ya can't blame a guy for trying anyway!!!!

Neat history on your cars!!! My Dad bought a new '67 Farilane--I was 16 years old and just new I was going to have a blast driving it....WRONG--Drove the car for the first time when I was 35 years old--let's just say Dad new exactly who he was dealing with!!!!! Anyway, it was a GTA, gorgeous car!!! He still had it when he died and with 4 sons and 5 stepsons the only thing to do with his cars (to prevent additional deaths in the family!!!) was to sell them..... A bummer, but any of us boys could have bought them... The money from his stuff all went into a trust fund that now rewards his grandchildren with a nice check every time they complete another semester of college...so it's being used well....

I did some buisness with Barry a number of years back on a resto-mod '64 Galaxie for a customer, man, he's the best!!!! Really knows the FE engines and how to get the most in performance and reliability out of them without costing you a second mortgage on the house!!!! I've still got some nice FE stuff ratholed, saving them for that just right project---someday!!!

Have fun with your build, and keep us updated and some pics when things start going together!!!!!

like they have said the streetmaster will run out of steam real quick, i bought one when they first came out,good low end not much elase,i went with an offy duel-port and then an offy 360 hi-rise both worked great.the dual-port improved gas mileage and had really good low in and would put up to 6000,the360 had good low end with mid and hi end power,cam would run out of steam before the intake.