Thread: 351's or big block 460?

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I am wondering about power from a 351. How hard would it be to get something like 500 HP from a 351W? Would it be cheaper to just build a 460 or what? Also how well with a moderately built C4 hold up to a built 351? Any info on the power and which motor would be better to race in a 66 F100 short bed would be greatly appreciated!

Shawn-

I really can't give an unbiased opinion on the motor issue since i have a 429 in my truck but with all the aftermarket parts out there; 392 stroker kits, aluminum heads, etc; it might be easier than i think to get 500+hp out of a 351. On the C4, you woud be surprised how much a well built C4 can take. With the right clutches, band, servo, shift kit, etc. they can take a good shot.

I had it completely all redone by a tranny shop. Has a shift kit, 2500 stall, etc. I dont know whether just pull the tranny and 302 out and get a built C6 and 460 or what... I am thinking about just taking my 66 F100 off the insurance and off and street and start tearing it apart but I have to wait until I get my everyday driver painted and a new motor in it because right now the 66 is a backup driver. Once I do that then I think I will tear the 66 apart and maybe do that with the motor. With me being in a Ford truck club here now I should be able to get some help on finding me a cheap 460 and C6 to start with. I want to pro street this truck. That is my goal to do over the next year or two after my everyday driver has the new motor and painted which wont be too hard.
Anyways, I am thinking that a 460 would probably get to something like 450-500 HP much easier and cheaper than a 351W would though huh? Reason I want to stay small block is because I just got this new C4 all built and spent a lot on it and would hate to have to get another tranny built. I don't know, I am still planning this thing out and in about a year I am sure the C4 will be worn down a bit and a C6 will be ok to put in.

I agree that the 460 would be easier and cheaper to make power just because of its size. I know this might be a little far fetched, but my father once told me that there were a few C4 bellhousings that were made for the 351M/400. That bellhousing would bolt to the 460.Which ever way you decide, best of luck. Sounds like it will be a sweet ride.

I agree that the 460 would be easier and cheaper to make power just because of its size. I know this might be a little far fetched, but my father once told me that there were a few C4 bellhousings that were made for the 351M/400. That bellhousing would bolt to the 460. Ask some of your fellow club memebers. Dont know if they are out there/if it is really true. You never know.Which ever way you decide, best of luck. Sounds like it will be a sweet ride.

Sorry about that.

A C4 up to a 460? Geeze, that would be crazy. Not sure if I'd trust a C4 up to something that big though... Thanks for the info though. I think I may just go ahead and fork out the extra money and get a 460 crate (they have great deals on them) and a C6 tranny built sometime in the next year and a half because this tiny 302 that I have in it now I put a lot of money into and it runs nice and should run for another year I hope before it needs a rebuild. I will work on getting the new front end and rear end on the truck.
Anymore info on 460's would be appreciated though. I am guessing I should just stick with naturally aspirated.

There are c-4's that will handle over a 1000 horse. look into performance automatic. not sure of web addy. A c-6 takes more power to turn because of its rotating mass. I know of a few running c-4's behind 557 cubes with no problems on a drag launch.
For 460 info, this is the site you will want to visit.
There are alot of intelligent people on there. Alot of engine builders.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/85220/
there are alot of tranny gurus there also. Do a search on the c-4 or any 460 questions. You'll find alot.

dave

Hmm that is sweet. I never knew it. Yeah I under stand that the C6 takes more power to turn it and all but then again some people told me that a C6 will hold up better and not take as much money and work into it to hold up like a C4 would. I will definetely check that site out. Either way I will have to get this tranny built up more because I didn't build it for anything more that 350-400 HP. If I come across a good C6 for cheap through my club then I will snag it but if not then I will look into the C4. I am in no rush or need to get this done anytime real soon which is good so I will have time to look all this info up.

Originally posted by blue57ford
I agree that the 460 would be easier and cheaper to make power just because of its size. I know this might be a little far fetched, but my father once told me that there were a few C4 bellhousings that were made for the 351M/400. That bellhousing would bolt to the 460. Ask some of your fellow club memebers. Dont know if they are out there/if it is really true. You never know.Which ever way you decide, best of luck. Sounds like it will be a sweet ride.

Your father is correct. However, to my knowledge, there were very few factory builds that involved the mating of a 335 series engine to a C4. So few in fact that it is next to impossible to find a bellhousing if you want to use a C4. Generally, the 289, 302, 351C, 351W have the same bellhousing bolt pattern and can mate a C4 or a C6 to it. Now, the 351M, 400, 429, 460 have the same bellhousing bolt pattern and are primarily C6 trannies only, these are not the same bellhousing bolt patterns as the 289, 302, 351C, 351W engines. In fact, ford has around three different C6 bellhousing patterns, and none are interchangeable, ie, a 400 C6 won't bolt to a 302.... same with the torque convertors.

Now, there might be some places out there that make adapter plates that you could mate a C4 to a 335-385 series engine. I've just never wanted too, I'd much rather stick with a C6. They suck up a little more energy, but dang they can take most anything you throw at 'em. I've heard mixed reviews about the C4, however. As in being able to take the same amount of power that a C6 could take. Drag racers like them because of the weight savings, some hate 'em because they don't last. To me, your engine build recipe will dictate what tranny to go with. If you have a trusted tranny guy that can really build up a C4 to take whatever you throw at it and you trust your builder, then you probably can't go wrong. I had my C6 built up to take whatever I throw at it. I don't expect any problems.

Here's a sort of guide to what you may or may not be able to mate up to whatever engine tranny combo you're thinking of.

http://www.tciauto.com/transmissions...m#applications

Originally posted by DaveMax
There are c-4's that will handle over a 1000 horse. look into performance automatic. not sure of web addy. A c-6 takes more power to turn because of its rotating mass. I know of a few running c-4's behind 557 cubes with no problems on a drag launch.
For 460 info, this is the site you will want to visit.
There are alot of intelligent people on there. Alot of engine builders.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/85220/
there are alot of tranny gurus there also. Do a search on the c-4 or any 460 questions. You'll find alot.

dave

I've spent hours on that site from time to time when I was searching for tranny info. I found it to be a 50/50 split with guys who liked/disliked using the C4 for a dragster. And, the 50% who did like them were using them for the weight savings. I seem to recall that there were a few who initially used C4's but after blowing up a few after just a couple races, decided to go with the C6 and never had any more issues. Lots of good reading on that site though.

Bottom line, if you just want a durable road worthy tranny, talk to your builder tell him what your engine output is and see what he recommends you do in regards to a tranny build. That's what I did and I'm more than pleased.

I asked my dad about the bellhousing issue just to be sure. He said that they were out there but that they only came on the truck C4's that had the filler pipe treaded in the oil pan. He said that if you could find a bellhousing, you had to use a case that had no filler pipe hole in it. Sure would be neat to have. My opinion anyway. There is the same thing with the FMX. I have a bellhousing that could bolt a FMX to a 429/460.

When you're looking for a C4 tranny look for one from an LTD, they put 400s in them, and it wasn't uncommon to find a C4 behind it. You might think about an FMX as they were also put behind the 351m/400s

Yeah from the info I am looking up a C6 would be cheaper in the end and last longer than the C4.