Thread: 302 wont run without gas

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ok so i got my new transmission all hooked up today, and so i took the stang for a test drive ran great, turn key starts up drives right off.... so i figured cool, gonna go over to my girlfriends house, i'm driving down the highway, and i start getting some smoke and the engine dies.... i lift up the hood and my starter is on fire.... i put out the fire and put in an old starter and now she wont stay running unless i keep the pedal down, and its getting a squeeling sound from the engine..... temp was low, oil pressure was around 40....

the only things i changed on the motor were a new HEI ignition and a new mini starter that was a pile of crap apparently.... full specs on the motor, 69 302, stock bottom end, mild cam, ported and polished HO cast iron heads, 351 valves, edelbrock airgap intake, edelbrock 1406 650CFM carb w/electric choke... tranny is a c-4 fully rebuilt for racing applications... any ideas?

Hmmmm....

You installed the new trans & everything seems to work fine... then the NEW starter catches fire. You install another starter & you have a sluggish motor & a squeeling noise!

The starter catching fire when driving down the street seems to be the key. Sounds like the starter drive never fully disengaged ... though it seems like you would have been aware if that had happened. I can't imagine a starter catching fire for no apparent reason.

Assumption #1
The car ran well before installing the new trans & starter.
Assumption #2
You reinstalled the trans yourself & assume the trans operated correctly. Do you have a manual valve body (no vacuum modulator required) & what kind of convertor did you install?

The squeeling noise & sluggish motor remains a mystery for now ... However, I advise you not to drive it until the source is determined.

That sucks.

I guess it could be many different things. Here's a scenario that fits the symptom, albeit rather unpleasant.

The new starter was jammed into the flywheel which is why it would not disengage. However the jam is due to radial preload against the flex plate. This radial load has caused significant damage to the rear main bearing and journal, resulting in the squeal and enough interal friction to require throttle to keep her running.

Not pleasant but it fits the symptoms.

I always assume the worst; seems to find me often

Good luck, Kitz

assumption 1 is very correct, ran well enough to blow the old transmission. yes i installed transmission myself, always have, it does have a vaccum modulator and it is connect properly, converter is a stock converter that i bought brand new about a year ago... the starter did have just the very edges of the teeth chewed up a little bit, not even much..... ussually they disentigrate at that kind of force put on them... i got her to start earlier and run without holding the pedal down... but i'm still getting a squeeling... i'm gonna try and see if the flewplate might have gotten bent....i have had that happen before

Originally posted by kitz
That sucks.

I guess it could be many different things. Here's a scenario that fits the symptom, albeit rather unpleasant.

The new starter was jammed into the flywheel which is why it would not disengage. However the jam is due to radial preload against the flex plate. This radial load has caused significant damage to the rear main bearing and journal, resulting in the squeal and enough interal friction to require throttle to keep her running.

Not pleasant but it fits the symptoms.

I always assume the worst; seems to find me often

Good luck, Kitz

"This radial load has caused significant damage to the rear main bearing and journal, resulting in the squeal and enough interal friction to require throttle to keep her running."
I think you might have went a little to far there kitz, you should be a writer when my starter damage my main bearings I'm leaving town.

looks like she may have overheated, the squealing was from the water pump, i did a cylinder leakage test to test for a blown head gasket, came back with minor leakage from the rings which is pretty common on a cold motor..... so i'm not exactly sure why shes starting so hard...

Originally posted by DennyW
Start with the basic checks first. Is the battery full of water ? Is it up to charge ? Does it pass a load test ? Are all your connections clean and tight, and not just look like they are ?

quote:

However the jam is due to radial preload against the flex plate. This radial load has caused significant damage to the rear main bearing and journal, resulting in the squeal and enough interal friction to require throttle to keep her running.

I love that story, it's great !!

kitz should be a writer, if he can get that out of a hung up starter, what could he do with a real story?

Originally posted by DennyW
Start with the basic checks first. Is the battery full of water ? Is it up to charge ? Does it pass a load test ? Are all your connections clean and tight, and not just look like they are ?

battery has no water at all, its a red top, yes the battery is brand new, hasn't even been ran for more than half an hour plus that cranking, plus i've made sure the altenator is charging, dont have the equipment at home to put it thru a load test, but i'm pretty sure it would pass one... all the wiring is brand new, all connections are nice and clean and tight, i've already looked thru it all 5 times over earlier today.... i have 4 grounds plus the other 5 or so that are part of the wiring harness...

Does it run smooth? Could the fire have burnt the spark plug wires?
Is the squealing noise coming from the front or the rear of the engine? Could a piece of the failed starter be stuck between the flywheel and the engine or bellhousing?

I might be way off, but it sounds like it jumped time to me.

yes denny a red top is a gel battery... and yeah, water pump failed, and i checked, my distributor came loose of the hold down and just spun a lil too advanced.... looks like everything is fine now..... just a buncha things all happened at once, i guess i got an excuse to get a better than stock water pump now... i was gettin scared at first.... now i just gotta get my exhaust re-welded to get rid of all that damn rattling and my car will be happy again.... thanks for the input guys