Thread: MSD Distributor in 5.0

Tweet

I'm about to start my 5.0 crate motor for the first time in a few weeks. It has been converted from EFI/TFI to carburated, mechanical fuel pump and MSD Billet Distributor ignition. It all fits fine but I still have a nagging question as far as oil pump drive. A hardened SVO piece has been installed along with a Melling HV oil pump and pickup.
I am aware that the 5.0 original distributor has a longer body casting, ( I sold the one that came on the motor w/o checking) but have not been able to determine if I need a different length drive for the pump. I have .500 +/- engagement in the distributor. It will run that way - I just want to make sure it keeps running !!! Has anyone checked this out?

Thanks for the reply.
The hardened pump drive is in "forever" - my concern is the insertion depth into the end of the distributor - is a half inch correct / enough? A while back the Ford SVO Helpless Line had no idea what I was talking about. But, the 2006 SVO Performance catalog does explain the difference between the early and late drive shafts - I can use either, assuming that ~1/2" is enough insertion depth
The dist. driven gear was changed out for an MSD steel piece to match the E-303 camshaft steel drive. I have a history with bronze gears that isn't good for a street engine - 3 to 5000 mile changeout exercises isn't my favorite way to spend a Saturday afternoon when I could be driving the car. Besides, I'm an O.F. and it hurts to lay on my back too long on cold concrete

Also, why dump the HV pump. It is not a high pressure unit, which I neither need nor want. I have run this same basic design pump forever in 351's and FE's with no problems.

As long as you have a new (ish) engine with good bearing clearances you don't need a band-aid fix like hv or hp oil pumps. The sbf standard pump puts out all you will need to 7500 rpm.

The engagement depth of your pump drive is dandy. I wouldn't worry unless it were a quarter inch.

Good call on the bronze versus steel gear. Bronze is for race cars that change out the gear a lot. Steel will last the life of your cam as long as the depth is correct for engagement on the cam gear. You should check for a rub on the boss down inside the block. Search CC for that article.

I think Bill is alluding to the tendency of a HV pump to completely evacuate a stock capacity pan, leaving the bearings to run on air

Thanks for the good advice guys - looks like my achin' bones are going to have to do the cold concret thing. At least the body isn't on the frame yet and there is no crossmember in the way (IFS on a TCI 'A' chassis).

w2zero - the crate engine has never run so the bearing clearances should be good.
I just found this on p111 of the 2006 Ford Perf. Parts catalog:

"Some heavy-duty oil pump drive shafts may not allow a EFI distributor
to slide down far enough over the oil pump drive shaft. EFI distributors
have a longer shaft below the gear.
Running a HV oil pump with production bearing clearances can cause
abnormally high oil pressure and possible premature distributor gear wear."

Now - off again to Summit or Jegs

Glad to be of help. There seems to be a large contingent of folks that put in high pressure and high volume pumps when they buy or rebuild SBF's. I don't know where that comes from unless it was a bandaid fix for a set of worn out bearings. God only knows why they wouldn't just slip in another set of bearings while the pan was off.

I use the Ford Racing oil pump drive myself. No silly keeper to fall off and it fits. My last build. http://s6.photobucket.com/albums/y237/w2zero/?start=60

w2zero,
Got a new Melling M-68 pump on its' way from Summit - will be here by Friday and installed shortly therafter!!!

Great '64 Fairlane - and looked at all the photos. I have a bunch but not in an on line album as yet - gotta get with the program. I save your album site and will try to get some in place. Unfortunately a lot are on film rather than digital. I was a late convert, but wanted a DSLR so I could use my SLR lenses so waited til the price of the Nikon D70 got to an acceptable range.

Am finishing up a full fendered Brookville bodied, TCI IFS framed '31 Model A roadster. Has the crate 5.0 with Edelbrock RPM intake & carb, E303 cam, Crane 1.7 rockers, MSD billet ignition TCI trans and converter, '57 3.25 9", 4 wheel Wilwood brakes, '32 gas tank in the back, etc, etc, etc

Oops Sorry about the size of the picture - first attempt to put one on this site

I'm liking the look of that Dave. Very nice.

My latest efforts are to slide the CD player out of hiding while the radio delete plate hinges down. Dunno why, just because I can I suppose. Maybe use the unused choke cable to make it slide in and out.

I've been lazy lately about taking pictures of anything besides the granddaughter. I'll start adding pics soon as the headliner is ready to go in since I have to paint the dash when the glass is out. That is the opportunity to replace the old gaskets and finish off the stereo too. The Detroit locker is too loud and I can't run around with open headers so I'll just turn the radio up. =)

The new Melling M-68 STANDARD punp took me about 90 minutes to install. I did find an oops(mine) - so it turned out to be a good plan to replace the pump. The existing -A302 HD SVO oil pump drive was in backwards, not allowing the distributor to fully seat - which answers the original question as to why I felt that I did not have enough insertion into the distributor drive. Also am now using the -B302 later version shaft with more hex on top.
Now I have to take the vacuum advance off the dist - between the A/C compressor and alternator on Street and Performance brackets, do not have enough timing adjustment. So much for paying the extra bucks for the MSD Billet small diameter vac advance distributor. At least they supplied the material to do it.

Also, back to getting the body ready to paint - lots of separate pieces on a
Model A, but it is still a fairly easy to disassemble/paint/reassemble body.

Plus the spring honeydo's are waiting.

I do understand about grandchildren - our 4 kids have been able to present us with TEN !!! so it does get a bit busy around here occasionally. Unfortunately, the closest lives over 200 miles away in NJ, the furthest in England. Thank goodness for email.

Sadly, I only have two grandcritters. The youngest, just 20 months is with us during the week when the kids work and the oldest, 12, is with her psychoflake mother. I figure she will start running away in the next two years and we will petition for guardianship.

Originally Posted by Irelands child

Thanks for the good advice guys - looks like my achin' bones are going to have to do the cold concret thing. At least the body isn't on the frame yet and there is no crossmember in the way (IFS on a TCI 'A' chassis).

w2zero - the crate engine has never run so the bearing clearances should be good.
I just found this on p111 of the 2006 Ford Perf. Parts catalog:

"Some heavy-duty oil pump drive shafts may not allow a EFI distributor
to slide down far enough over the oil pump drive shaft. EFI distributors
have a longer shaft below the gear.
Running a HV oil pump with production bearing clearances can cause
abnormally high oil pressure and possible premature distributor gear wear."

Now - off again to Summit or Jegs

Hey Dave,

So, if I understand correctly, the HV oil pump is not a good idea on a new engine......what about a rebuilt one? I purchased the Melling M-68HV when I was gathering parts for my 69 302 build, but have been reading a few things that suggest that maybe I should cash it in for the regular one. It will definitely be a street driven car. Thoughts?

Qoute: Now I have to take the vacuum advance off the dist - between the A/C compressor and alternator on Street and Performance brackets, do not have enough timing adjustment. So much for paying the extra bucks for the MSD Billet small diameter vac advance distributor. At least they supplied the material to do it.


You may want to rethink getting rid of the vacuum advance. Lot's of overheating issues can be tracked to the lack of one.

Just a thought.


Don

Getting taken to task am I ?? Eleven months after my original post!!

On a new/rebuilt SBF engine, after lots of research here and elsewhere, a HV pump was found to be not needed as there is plenty of volume and pressure on an engine with "good" clearances. I screwed up by thinking more volume was necessary. I also screwed up by installing my pump drive backwards .

The vacuum advance will go back on IF enough clearance can be found around the manifold, water outlet neck and other claptrap hanging in the general vicinity - assuming I can optimize my static timing.

you just need to get the timing set properly, the right tooth lined up and it should do it... i have a similar problem with my large body HEI unit in my 289...... except what the problem is is theres a small groove in the bottom plate of the distributor that fits over the heater hose fitting on the intake.... gives me about 6 degrees of sweep.... takes a little time and patience to get it in place but once its there you're happy and it should lock down and never move again

[QUOTE=Irelands child]Getting taken to task am I ?? Eleven months after my original post!!

The statute of limitations hadn't run out yet.


Hey, we get a little slow when we get older.


Don