Thread: 351W or 351C?

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The 4V Cleveland heads make very poor bottom end power, but with a light reciprocating assembly they will make scads of top end power, from 5,000 to 8,000 rpm on the dyno, never seen any Windsor head come close to them on power!!!!

Dart recently came out with a block that will take a Windsor crank, has the distributor location of a Cleveland, and is available with a 4.125" bore with either an 8.2", 9.2", or 9.5" deck height, just your standard 460ci small block.... Soon to be available with the dimensions I want in aluminum!!!!! When it's available in aluminum (probably early Spring) I'm going to get one and send my old Cleveland 2V heads off to be ported and flowed at Erik's. Gonna put the whole thing in a 2400 pound car and go chebbie hunting....... Should be the most fun an old Blue Oval fan like me could ever be allowed to have!!!!!!!!

PS, make up your own performance numbers, I pretty much know where it's going to be based on what those tired old cast iron heads did the last time they were off the shelf and on a car with considerably fewer cubes.....

Another good combination for you SBF guys to consider is the Boss 302 block that Ford SVT released a year or so back, with a set of either the 4V Cleveland heads, or the Aussie Clevland head.... Put in a light crank, aluminum rods, light pistons, roller cam and rockers---- Then go hunt down the mouse motor chebbie guys and show them what a high rpm engine REALLY pulls like........ That poor sbc has never seen a head that will flow like that Cleveland 4V that's been tweaked!!!!!!

PS-- Before you sbc guys unload on me with a bunch of "virtual engines" with "virtual performance", I am ready, willing, and able to put one of these together and back it up with a sizeable wager......

Originally Posted by Dave Severson

Another good combination for you SBF guys to consider is the Boss 302 block that Ford SVT released a year or so back, with a set of either the 4V Cleveland heads, or the Aussie Clevland head.... Put in a light crank, aluminum rods, light pistons, roller cam and rockers---- Then go hunt down the mouse motor chebbie guys and show them what a high rpm engine REALLY pulls like........ That poor sbc has never seen a head that will flow like that Cleveland 4V that's been tweaked!!!!!!

PS-- Before you sbc guys unload on me with a bunch of "virtual engines" with "virtual performance", I am ready, willing, and able to put one of these together and back it up with a sizeable wager......

hey i do not care at all i want to do is bore /hone holes mill block rebuild heads build engines and pay bills i do not care what make it is all i care is it better after it leaves my shop

Originally Posted by pat mccarthy

hey i do not care at all i want to do is bore /hone holes mill block rebuild heads build engine and pay bills i do not care what make it is all i care is it better after it leaves my shop

I know Pat.....it wasn't directed at you or the other "real" engine guys..... Anyway, maybe I should just do up one of these engines and put it in my 'Maro?????

Originally Posted by Dave Severson

I know Pat.....it wasn't directed at you or the other "real" engine guys..... Anyway, maybe I should just do up one of these engines and put it in my 'Maro?????

that fine with me

Originally Posted by pat mccarthy

that fine with me

I'd like to, but then I'd have to find someone as sick and twisted as me to buy it when it's done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks for all of your opiniosn and your information. I think that I am going to get rid of my 351W and get a SBC.

Originally Posted by tigers83

Thanks for all of your opiniosn and your information. I think that I am going to get rid of my 351W and get a SBC.

Yup, a 350/350, just like everybody else....(yawn).... I would imagine it's better to run what's in vogue for most rather then something that with the right kind of parts and machining could actually be a better set up....

I had Friends that owned Mach 1's with 351w and 351c engines all of them where stock or near stock and 4V engines . The 351w's where not very fast . Know the 351c 4V Mach 1's Raged . You hear how the 4V Cleveland heads with them Big Ports killed the Low end Power ? You would never now it watching them cars run . Even that 1972 Mustang 351 HO was and still is a Bad Boy right out the Box .

Originally Posted by tango

I had Friends that owned Mach 1's with 351w and 351c engines all of them where stock or near stock and 4V engines . The 351w's where not very fast . Know the 351c 4V Mach 1's Raged . You hear how the 4V Cleveland heads with them Big Ports killed the Low end Power ? You would never now it watching them cars run . Even that 1972 Mustang 351 HO was and still is a Bad Boy right out the Box .

I still have one of the Boss 351 Clevelands, 4 bolt block, steel crank, 4v heads....... Now if I could ever find "the right" car to put it in.... Thanks to Pat giving me a heads up on an eBay deal, even have the dry sump pan and most of the other goodies!!!!!!!! Need a '71 Mustang or Torino......!!!!!!!

That 351c 4V is an un-real engine . Very Powerful I would Like to see more of them being built . Not sure how rare they are these days ?

Originally Posted by Dave Severson

Yup, a 350/350, just like everybody else....(yawn).... I would imagine it's better to run what's in vogue for most rather then something that with the right kind of parts and machining could actually be a better set up....

No a 400 bored 40 over and a turbo 350 tranny

Originally Posted by tango

That 351c 4V is an un-real engine . Very Powerful I would Like to see more of them being built . Not sure how rare they are these days ?

Well, they're rare, especially the 4 bolt block.... Expensive to build is about the only drawback, think that's what scares a lot of people away from them.... Even box stock they were a strong engine, but with some CNC and flow bench time on the heads, a light (or stock lightened) reciprocating assembly and they do stay together quite well at RPM.... Always wished their popularity would have been higher so the aftermarket companies would have tooled up some aluminum heads for them..... Roush used to do some High Port Cleveland heads that really helped with the flow on the exhaust side.... The way the centrifugal blowers react so well to good exhaust flow, betcha they would respond quite well to a blower (either roots or centrifugal) with about a dozen or so pounds of boost...... Don't remember the flow numbers on them, got it on a head sheet someplace in the piles and piles of paperwork and propaganda.....


PS--We ran the high port exhaust heads back in the late 70's on a road race car I crewed on for a couple seasons--for whatever reason they moved the power band down about a thousand revs. .... great power and no failures mechanically..... sure would like to find another set of them sometime!!!!

Originally Posted by jerry clayton

Cleveland makes more power tho

Waiting on dyno to test 351C/408cid stroker.... just built.. will see what she produces.. let you boys know..

Regards Daryl
Pic of the beast:

Hey Dave; I'm not sure if you knowthis but Brodix made a aluminum head for the cleveland.
Talked too one of thier rep's a few years ago who said they had built a bunch of them for nascar racing. I didn't know nascar raced the clevelands.
Ford Heads: Roush 200cc or less, World Products 200cc or less, RHS ProAction 200cc or less, SVO 200cc or less, Boss Cleveland or four barrel Cleveland pre 1973 allowed. These will be the only heads larger than 210cc. Brodix SPFO allowed. Only head allowed to have larger than 230cc in any class is Ford Boss Cleveland. Any heads deemed of lesser performance value than those listed above will be given .20 handicap. Standard runner height heads only other than heads actually listed above. All heads must be 20 degree except for Boss Cleveland.
Kurt